Geopolitics with Ryan Dawson- Episode 4: Post ‘Pillar of Cloud’ (Israeli assault) on Gaza, what is the future for Palestine?

Ryan Dawson Presents Pepe Escobar

GPThe legendary roving journalist Pepe Escobar and writer for the Asian Times, joins me to discuss the aftermath of the assault of Gaza, the reaction by the world community, the clearly divided bias press, Netanyahu's continued drastic measures, and how this has affected the war-drum beat to attack Iran. Also with Syria torn up by mercenary fighters from a multitude of factions, what impact is this making for the Kurdish population in Syria and the adjacent areas?

Listen to the podcast show here (Subscribers Only):




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  1. Bobeast98 says:

    Nice Job, Ryan!
    Really glad I found your site! You’ve turned me on to some great sources. Including this one! Thanks to you, Sibel Edmonds and her team for all that you do!

  2. First 12 mins because there was some audio glitches on some browsers.

    Hello Pepe, my friend how have you been?

    Dawson Hello Pepe

    Pepe Hey you doing?

    Dawson I am good how are you my friend.

    Pepe Good great talking to you. It has been a long time huh?.

    Dawson Yes it has been a fee months

    Pepe Been a few months yeah

    Dawson But everything you said happened so that is why I cam calling you back.

    Pepe (laughs)

    Dawson Well I was just thinking what a small world it is because the last time I interviewed you I think you were in Hong Kong right?

    Pepe Right I was in Hong Kong in the summer

    Dawson And now you’re down in the big south, Brazil one of the BRIC nations, and here I am a Hatteras Native in Japan on a show started by an American from Turkey that is podcast worldwide but we are going to be talking about the Middle East. Small world isn’t it?

    Pepe (laughs) Fantastic this is brilliant, brilliant.

    Dawson It is perfect. That is how we roll.

    Pepe (laughs)

    Dawson I read you Asia times article Bomb Iran? No. Bomb Gaza? Yes! That was right on target and I want to use that as the starting point for our conversation which will probably get very geopolitical very quickly.

    Pepe OK

    Dawson In there you talked about that clown Bibi or Benjamin Netanyahu who I like to call cry Bibi now.

    Pepe He is not a clown actually he is an extremely dangerous man isn’t he?

    Dawson Oh he is a clown for the stunt he pulled with his little card board cut out he took to the UN with his bomb and his red line.

    Pepe Ah yes that was his Daffy Duck impersonation.

    Dawson That was a real low point for him. I mean, his like a duck speech was asinine enough but he took it to a new low. Some PR firm or some advisor needs to get slapped for that.

    Pepe He can hire the best PR outfits in Washington and yet he comes out with a looney tunes cartoon.

    Dawson I don’t know maybe he is sharing advisor with Romney or something.

    Pepe Exactly you know or Romney could (even) advise him.

    Dawson But anyway in the article you were talking about his most recent campaign slaughter I mean slogan of “vote for me I’m more blood thirsty than everyone else.” You wrote “So what is Bibi to do? Simple. Launch Operation Pillar of Cloud against the only place on Earth the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) can raise hell and wreak havoc with total impunity and negligible “collateral damage”; the under-siege, illegally blockaded, collectively punished-to-death inhabitants of the open-air prison known as Gaza.” And that is true. My two questions are Why is it the only place on earth they can get away with it and why can they do it with impunity?

    Pepe Well they can do it with impunity because they have the US behind them and most European nations. In fact t is very interesting nowadays because some European nations are not even talking about what happened in Israel/Palestine. But they are slowly distancing themselves from the apartheid state, collective punishment, concentration camp practices in Gaza. The European Union is already split. France and the UK now are seeing the writing on the wall. The first step, this is what they took in the past 24hrs in fact, -they are recalling their ambassadors. They are telling Israel right away, look if you go on with this extended settlement around East Jerusalem, you are in trouble. On top of it we have Bibi withdrawing the taxes owned to the Palestinians, 120 million dollars the last I checked.

    Dawson Yes he wants to give it to the Israel Electric Company the last I read.

    Pepe Exactly, and this is so predictable.Because he got a hammering at the UN, a world hammering. So we have the US, Canada, and seven dwarfs in the Pacific Ocean voting against Palestine being recognized as uh practically as a state, as a non-state member in fact but virtually practically a state. They can enjoy some of the privileges of being part of the UN just like the Vatican. And they can go to the international criminal court. If they want to.

    Dawson Yes.

    Pepe And they will. And the developing world is behind them. When I say developing world I mean the whole of Latin American, the whole of Africa, the whole of the Middle East, and South East Asia and most of East Asia apart from a few wobbly US allies in South East Asia.

    Dawson I think Mongolia and South Korea Abstained, but Japan and China both voted for Palestine.

    Pepe Yes to put it bluntly 95% of the whole world is behind the Palestinians. But then we reach the enormous problem, which is the internal division in Palestine. Fatah nowadays who do they represent? They don’t represent the whole of the West Bank. They represent a section of the West Bank. They don’t represent the families of refugees not only in the region but in the rest of the world. And then there is Gaza where Hamas represents let’s say most of Gaza but not all of Gaza there are Jihad Islamic as well and they have been growing over the past few years. So if the Palestinians don’t get their act together, and then address the UN and the world as one body which is not happening, and hasn’t for the past few years, then they are not going to get anywhere. This is what Bibi is counting on. It is still divide and rule. And by the way the divide and rule goes back at least 25, 30 years ago. Israel was instrumental in the birth of Hamas itself. It was perfect for them to have an Islamic group fight a secular authority in Palestine. So the division between the PA and Hamas was perfect of Israel’s motives and agenda hidden or not. They are betting on division inside the Palestinain Authority itself and inside Hamas itself. So if they can have four or five different groups it is perfect for Israel. The united front in Israel is still the Likud. Avigdor Lieberman’s can I describe it they are crooks they are worse than a mafia.

    Dawson Well as you mentioned take Avigor Liebernman their foreign minister said no one should be safe in Gaza. And that they should be reoccupied. It’s typical of everyone there. Elly Yishai the interior minister of Israel said Gaza should be bombed back into the Middle Ages. He also said “Muslims that arrive here do not even believe that this country belongs to us, to the white man.” The Israeli transportation minister Yisrael Katz advocated war crimes saying Gaza should have its electricity, fuel, food, and water cut off. All part of a deterrent based on fear. Can you imagine a US politician saying such a thing? Can you imagine even the worst of them getting on TV and talking about the white race. Or turning power off to a certain city? American exceptionalism that we talk about sometimes just pales in comparison to the Israeli exceptionalism, to the outright racism engrained in the state of Israel.

    Pepe It’s based on racism. In fact as a background to everything we are discussing I would recommend a book online, which explains all the factions pitted against each other, the British, French, Arabs and Jews. To what then was the birth of the state of Israel. The book is called a line in the sand by James Barr who is a very good British journalist. So he explains how the Brits and the French divided the Middle East at the end of the first world war, how the Zionist lobby in Britain and in France got what they wanted unlike the Arabs because once again they could not unite and pressure the western powers to get what they were promised: a single independent unified Arab nation. And if you read this book it explains everything that is happening now. And it explains how the Zionist always have the upper hand and always had the upper hand for the past at least 80 years.

    Dawson I wonder if there will be a reprint called “A red line in the sand” ?

    Pepe Exactly but now the Israeli red line doesn’t exist because for them there no red line. The cannot simply acknowledge that their red line is greater Israel. Which means encompassing all of Palestine, parts of Jordan, Parts of Lebanon, even parts of Syria. This is what they really want. Obviously this is never spelled out. The real agenda.

    Now that’s something that Obama indirectly slighted them on. He said no nation would tolerate missiles being dropped on them from a nation outside its borders. Now aside from the total hypocrisy there of Mr. “I have a drone,” saying such a thing, he actually got one in there on the hard line because he admitted that Israel had borders, which is something for the US president.

    Pepe The thing is he may have admitted it, and the Washington establishment may admit it, but the fact is the Israelis themselves they never mention the word borders or the concept of borders. Because their borders are fluid. I think the maps tell the whole story. From 1947 to now, how much Palestine has shrunk. Now I think it is around 10 or 11% of the original Palestine…

  3. fezayusufzai says:

    Thanks for providing the transcript Ryan. Great show.

  4. Ryan,
    You got my favorite fella on I see. No one quite knows the geopolitical World like Pepe Escobar.

    Great job on the show, honing your craft better all the time. I could listen to Pepe talk for hours and never get bored. He makes you feel as if you areright in the room with his relaxed style.

    If you should do a transcript of the second half or so concerning Syria, Turkey information, give me a holler via twitter or I can check back here. Very interested in that jigsaw puzzle as there are more twists and turns hourly it seems.

    Thanks again for the great interview and glad you are on board here at Boiling Frogs. You are in great company my friend.

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