Probable Cause with Sibel Edmonds: Deep State Sugar Daddies, Mega NGOs & Controlled Opposition

Welcome to our eighth episode of Probable Cause. During our previous episode we talked about one of several tactics used by the powers to counter viable activist movements: Use of Sheep-Dipped operatives.

In this episode we are going to discuss another widely-utilized strategy for the purpose of coopting, pacifying and neutralizing opposition groups, networks and grassroots activists: Coopting and neutralizing viable movements via deep-state-funded political NGOs. I will attempt to explain how this process takes place, why it has been a proven method for success (success for the powers; the deep state), and what happens when a movement resists the cooptation. As with the previous episode I will be providing you with a real-life example as context, and will outline the tactic through a step-by-step account.

What we are about to cover here is the real-life dead-end of many organizations that begin with very noble causes, with a small dedicated network of activists, who become viable opposition, thus, a target of suppression and cooptation.

As always, I will be providing my take based on my experience and through my own personal lens and analyses, and will pose macro questions for you to consider. And as usual our next episode will be based on your reaction, critique, responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

*To listen to our previous episodes on this topic click here

Listen to the full episode here:


A Few Related Links

Part I. The Tentacles of Megas

Part II. The Journey from Watch-Dogs to Lap-Dogs

Part III. A Watch-Dog for All Seasons

Part IV. POGO: Mastering the Art of Lap-Dancing for Mega Sugar Daddies

How the ACLU, Ron Paul and a former EFF Director helped jail a CIA whistleblower

Compliance Guide for 501(c)(3) - Internal Revenue Service

Pros & Cons of 501(c)(3) Status

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  1. Rebecca Hanna-Diener says:

    Great show! I have 2 flow charts that I would like to share that were helpful to me when I was learning about the tentacles that have us in grid lock. How can I send them to you?

  2. albatross0612 says:

    I think you said more than you know. And quite funny the way you kept interjecting with “it’s a rich mans world” really funny! Keep Fighting.

  3. Joshua Roberts says:

    Thank you for sticking to your guns, you give me hope that free humanity can and will triumph in the end due to the integrity of a few humans who will not sell their souls for any price. The pitch-men of the NWO are sick indeed:

    “Let’s re-channel your efforts into an ongoing PR campaign of discouraging anyone else from ever blowing the whistle again! Cmon, it’ll be great, we have all the in-house legal and logistical capacity required to offset the very problems we created for you… er, I mean, which cropped up organically. And lets steer the conversation away from exposing the globalist cartel shell network of mega corporations and superclass deep state C3P0’s who service the capstone elites, because that’s not really important, we need to focus more on the foreground tidbits and make sure everyone gets lost in a gallery of intrigues – lolol. Money, Money, Money – must be funny, in a rich man’s world.

    Okay, okay, okay – you didn’t fall for pitch A, would you like to go into double jeopardy where the scores can Really change? We have a full-spectrum PR department ready to service you, just compromise your integrity and let us shunt your efforts into a vector that serves the very system you are exposing. Join us, join the dark side, become an NGO yourself – the retirement bonus is cherry.”

    You almost have to hand it to these elite lackeys, they are like the ultimate used car salesmen, slinking around and exploiting people’s best intentions to get them on-boarded for the big win against free humanity. This is precisely how they co-opted and reorganized China and Indonesia for instance, via NGOs and handlers that cultivated yat-sen, kai-shek, tse-tung et al. Look at Vaourfakis in Greece, Syriza is a Soros front group and it is basically Arab Spring 2.0 metrics being used to bring in a new bail in regime where they cynically sell Greeks back their sovereignty (just enough sovereignty to privatize real assets and have the cartel shell network buy up the country for pennies on the non-existent drachma) – after the EU/ECB has systematically ruined their country via the Euro, crippling policy frameworks and open operatives throughout major industries and the banking sector.

    And now they bring in the radical marxist and Randian game theorist Varoufakis to run a WWF pro-wrestling circus that even the alt-finance media is eating up and asking for seconds of, as if Varoufakis and Draghi weren’t on the same team… lol. They hijack nation states, run em into the ground and then sell the people back “sovereignty” in the form of being gobbled up by the cartel shell network, total rape and no chocolate mess, the ECB gets off scot-free with maximum cover and the real economic plundering will be carried out in a completely sanitized fashion. Like Iceland which “kicked out the bankers” and now has CNOOC, China’s state-run petroleum company doing the offshore oil… lol, and the TV-head trendies eat it up, they cry “liberation!” as the country is chopped and shopped by the shadow network of megas.

    Meanwhile Google has bought Boston Dynamics and they are manufacturing robo dog drones to do “domestic extremist” interdiction for DOD and the commenters on youtube are more concerned about the welfare of the robot dog being kicked than that of their fellow human beings who will be hunted down. The sheepletard is the ultimate political weapon system and reinforces at the baseline cultural level the implementations brought forth by the NGO superclass underlings of the NWO, they are the shock troops whose apathy ensures total success, who will attack you if you attempt to extricate them from the matrix, and we all know how it happened – I will quote some of the NWO’s own protocol droids:

    “Scientific societies are as yet in their infancy. . . . It is to be expected that advances in physiology and psychology will give governments much more control over individual mentality than they now have even in totalitarian countries. Fitche laid it down that education should aim at destroying free will, so that, after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable, throughout the rest of their lives, of thinking or acting otherwise than as their schoolmasters would have wished. . . . Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. . . .” -Bertrand Russell, 1953

    “A number of techniques about which I talked seem to be here already. And there seems to be a general movement in the direction of this kind of ultimate revolution, a method of control by which a people can be made to enjoy a state of affairs by which any decent standard they ought not to enjoy. This, the enjoyment of servitude, Well this process is, as I say, has gone on for over the years, and I have become more and more interested in what is happening.” -Aldous Huxley, 1962

    • To Joshua,

      “Google has bought Boston Dynamics and they are manufacturing robo dog drones to do “domestic extremist” interdiction for DOD”

      Still several generations from combat-ready, but in general I think the coming of the machines is not getting enough attention. Robots will, I believe, change society more profoundly than anything since the development of the electrical power grid.

      I’m not even talking about what “they” could do with these things. If “they” want your hiney cuffed and stuffed now, they can certainly get it done without sending in Terminator. I’m more directly concerned with what the psychopath pedophile the next street over might do when he can buy a capable remote-controlled door-busting machine on Amazon, analogous to what anyone can buy now in regards to flying robotic drones.

      The parameters of what constitutes reasonable personal security for families will have to be drastically modified, when some sick freak can send a powerful machine to be their avatar while they sit in a recliner wearing 3D headgear, facing no physical risk themselves.

      This new threat won’t really be driven home in public awareness until it’s demonstrated. In the meantime, I’m trying to future-proof my residence in ways which are either visually attractive or at least very subtle. Locks and security cameras won’t do it in the future. What will be necessary is strong physical barriers which will at least buy some time to either escape or disable the contraption.

      I’m off-topic here so I won’t ramble on. When the problem becomes more proximate, I’m sure it will get more attention here and elsewhere.

  4. Joshua Roberts says:

    DO NOT EVER FALL INTO THE 501(c)(3) TRAP!! 🙂
    Oh man, I am so glad you have your head screwed on straight Sibel, you are a true champion of free humanity!

    • Thanks, Joshua. And what a trap that is. If you get all the IRS and legal codes, including the description of all the abbreviated code laws you get 100s of pages. I can’t imagine anyone being naïve enough to think: ‘They make us tax free, they give tax deduction to our donors, when we are set to oppose their corruption and act as oversight.’

      • Joshua Roberts says:

        Its a control grid, just like the one they wanted you to enter into with PR overhead, an account and a corporate board stacked with NGO front-men. Luckily you are the really savvy one and nailed the underlying dynamics right out of the gate.

        • Joshua Roberts says:

          501(c)(3) structure invariably becomes an operational straightjacket. This was the right move and the trendy hipster grey hair Amy Goodman clones shucking and jiving for Ford Foundation and Soros sugar daddies say it all – Qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent! (If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas).

          They would have sucked the integrity right out of you and your entire operation – in reality, it would’ve been the worst PR move ever, because you would invariably end up legally obligated to tow the party line – the suppression of Clinton whistleblowing was the canary in the coal mine imo, and you can clearly see how long the game is given the timing and how they are setting up NWO lapdog Hillary for 2016 POTUS – they wanted to head you off at the pass long, long before they even began setting up the Lagarde/Yellen/Clinton trifecta!

  5. 344thBrother says:

    Nice use of music and humor breaks Sibel. : )

    I’m impressed with the cleverness of the cooption of otherwise good activism.

    First the Angels in all their non-threatening/hippy/feminine/grand-motherly guise.

    Then ever expanding costs which keeps the sincere activists busy busy busy at things of little consequence.

    Then all the regulations of the 501 C3, and a board of directors. In the end, the original group becomes a energy drain for the members, a money drain for honest and well meaning contributors, a control mechanism for the NGO’s at the top and a surveillance system against the group. It’s also a baited trap using the regulations for non-profit organizations and the tendency to fudge activities-punishable by imprisonment of course but probably with an escape clause for turning over information on the other members.

    All in the name of “Helping” you do “What a great job you’re doing!”

    One thing can be said about “The powers”. They have a lot of smart people thinking this stuff up for them. That’s for sure.

    I am curious as to what contributions Amy Goodman made to your meeting with the other Angels.

    I’m very glad you didn’t fall for all this “Easy money”. They would have killed you with kindness.


    • Dave,

      “Hippy/grandmotherly guise”- Exactly. They know- if they send their money guys, you know, those wearing Gold-Diamond Rolex, clad in Georgia Armani suits, the JP Morgan style, it would take less than two seconds for ‘die-hard activists’ to run the other way.

      Keeping them busy: Absolutely. The director of POGO spent 90+% of her time fundraising, dining fund-ers, going to their events and functions. People like her had: $150 K salary + Health Insurance (the best and most expansive kind) + Travel budget (including their family’s) + Their spouses collecting $50K-to=$75 K as consultants (investigators/researchers, etc.). So, it was self-preservation (to maintain this wholesome livelihood), institution-preservation (rent/dozens of staff members’ salaries/insurance …) … and, looking forward to ‘MORE.’ When they get out (aka retire), they have other bags of payoffs waiting for them (paid advisory positions within various foundations; advisory boards, etc.).

      Amy Goodman: I had met her several times before, including 2 interview sessions. She was posing as a poster girl (Look how we maintain gals like this). Also, they had this unwritten contractual agreement in place: Goodman vets out whoever will be marketed positively via foundation sugar daddies and tentacles (Mega NGOs). For example: The angle/tilt for the interviews with me was: All these evil deeds are caused by the Republicans/Bush. My case could be utilized for other agendas. You get a real case, but you arrive @ a pre-set conclusion to be sold to the public.

      • Joshua Roberts says:

        They were totally using Goodman as bait and wanted to cast your case in a false left/right paradigm to play into extant psyops like snowden etc.., setting up the field for Hillary 2016 and a faux push back against NSA spying, more wars etc. – meanwhile, Hillary will be the vanguard for a new round of bailouts and RUS Fed/Syria push.

      • 344thBrother says:

        Thank you for your reply Sibel. Very interesting. Amy Goodman as Gatekeeper/Gatekeeper.

  6. mariotrevi says:

    Very interesting, “lectures on co-optations, sheep-dipped agents”-style. I think it’s probably best to stick to the NSWBC as presently conceived, because of all the tricks of the Deep State.
    I can imagine that the BFP and/or the NSWBC could award a non-monetary prize for a recent book or published article(s) that exposes some part of the Deep State, the fight against whistle-blowers, that kind of thing. I’m thinking for example about James Risen and his book: “Pay Any Price: Greed, Power, and Endless War”. I don’t know that high-lighting these kinds of books would change very much, so I’ll leave it at that.

    • Mario, we’ll be mentioning ‘James Risen’ in our coming episodes. We covered: Sheep-Dipped Operatives, Sheep-Dipped NGOs/Foundations, and there will be sheep-dipped Journalists/reporters.

      James Risen and NYT: are not who they seem they are. So much was disclosed (documented via highly credible former agency insiders) to Risen and alike in 2004-2005-2006 and 2007. ‘NONE’ published. Some ‘new’ exposes on NSA and CIA, were completely tilted/twisted/modified info received years back, later marketed (aka exposed) with a totally different tilt/angle.

      • Ok, thanks for the reply, Sibel. I’d like to ask if people believe in astro-turfing of the web, meaning the Deep State creating web pages to mislead or to bury things. In my case, I found many “David Bernier” on the Web. One of them was at a K street (Washington) Law firm: Lasa Monroig & Veve LLP ( limited partnership). So, once I called them, and asked to speak to “David Bernier”. The operator said “He’s no longer here.” and “We don’t have a following address”.
        Later, the “David Bernier” at Lasa Monroig & Veve LLP was no longer listed.
        Today, when I search with Google: David Bernier, Google tells me there are about 8.4 million search results, which seems a lot to me. And even when I search: Lasa Monroig & Veve david bernier, for images (photos) using Google, there are many results; they “are” David Berniers, but appear to be un-connected to the law firm Lasa Monroig & Veve LLP.
        So, I wonder if this web astro-turfing is a real phenomenon. All I have heard are rumours that Web astro-turfing exists or has been done.

  7. Mgrdichian says:

    To answer your closing question, yes, it’s unrealistic. If you want a lot of money to advance your group but you’re not willing to play the game with the people who have lots of money, then it’s an unrealistic objective.

    Personally, I think you should have pursued 501c3 status. I did it back in the late 1980s. Back then it cost around $2,000, which primarily went to the lawyer who prepared the documents. And It took about a year to get it finalized with the IRS. If the rules are the same as they were back then, you only need 3 officers to qualify as 501C3, and they are of your own choosing. So what I would have said to one of your “angels” is OK, let’s take this once step at a time. First we will pursue tax-exempt status. I would have told her who YOU wanted as the 3 officers of the corporation, and also tell her that you don’t have the application $$ so she’s gonna need to cough it up. I would have told her in order to keep our integrity we need the WBs themselves to be calling the shots. If UR not willing to do it our way, then thanks, but no thanks. Look at it this way, you could have formed a 501c3 with you, Coleen Rowley, and Daniel Ellsberg as the 3 requisite officers. What would you have then? You would have had a tax-exempt entity with 3 credible, newsworthy officers and I’ll bet you could have solicited some tax-exempt funds by doing that alone (no HQ, PR person, mass mailing, etc). Maybe not in the numbers your “angels” wanted, but who cares? It’s your organization. If you could have talked an angel into helping get it off the ground (short $$) on your terms, you would have accomplished a lot. Looking back, I don’t think it would have been unrealistic at all. This is not to say you would not have encountered other compromising situations along the way, but you could have tackled them one at a time once you had the status. “Holding your ground” doesn’t seem like a Sibel Edmonds weakness.

    And if it didn’t work the way you hoped, or the regulations were too restrictive, no harm done — simply shut it down, cash out, and move to pan B.

    • Mgrdichian says:

      If you can talk Coleen and Daniel into being officers with you in a 501c3, I’ll find the money 4U… no strings attached. But doing something with it is gonna be up to you.

    • arealjeffersonian says:


      Mind sharing what your 501C(3) was set up for? Looking at the link Sibel provided on “pros & cons” of 501C(3), at appears it totally restricts “political activity”. What did that mean for you? Were you able to do everything you wanted your organization to do, or did you have to toe the line set up by the IRS?

      • Joshua Roberts says:

        The 501(c)(3) would’ve become an operational straightjacket.

        • Mgrdichian says:

          so is being broke

          • Mgr,

            I know two guys with government bribery/lobby watch org, who went beyond broke, when the gov came after them with charges. They had to collectively spend $500K in attorney fees, and a court case than went on for 4+ years/. Of course, the gov spent millions of dollars (thanks to taxpayers like you & me), and achieved its ultimate goal: broke that particular organization and those activists.

          • One more thing: Usually, when the fund-ers are ‘the people’ who donate $20 or $50 or … $100, the amount not being deductible does not matter much. It is when you have big guys/companies giving out $100K or $1M that the deduction game takes real hold.

      • Jeffersonian, Exactly. It is partly determined by the areas of activities. When you are considered a ‘threat’ by the gov (oversight, gov secrecy watch, lobby watch, of course ‘gov whistleblowers,’ etc.), you are watched under microscope, one tiny deviation from their rules/codes, even the appearance of one tiny deviation, would land you in the war zone. They’ll come after you, with a ton of bricks.

      • Mgrdichian says:

        If you’ve explored the restrictions, risks and limitations of 501c3 status and determined it’s not a good fit for NSWBC, then why devote an entire podcast to it? Makes no sense to me. Sorry, I retract my original comment.

        I know two guys named Wright who invented a machine that flies, and I’ll bet they didn’t spend a whole lot of time examining things that don’t fly, but rather on things that do fly. Hope to rejoin the conversation when the focus changes.

        • There is this thing called “Learning”. Spending time, examining it, researching it, delving into it, taught me a great deal.

          Without doing so you won’t deeply understand why things are the way they are. Here is how to prove my point: go check the internet, all news archives, analyses, and see how many ‘real’ analyses/exposes have been written on this topic. You won’t find many.

          And guess what: These NGOs are one of many reasons the majority do not take personal responsibility or act. There are many who say: ‘Oh yes, this is why I donate and support ACLU, or, POGO, or XYZ; because these guys are doing what needs to be done.”

          We talked about revolution. We talked about change. We talked about apathy. We talked about lack of action by individuals. And this episode directly relates to our topic.

          Also, I personally like to listen to or read from people who not only have ‘theoretical’ knowledge and understanding, but also, practical and real-life experiences. For example: A professor who writes about Iran, but has never even been in Iran, doesn’t speak the language …

          Same here. It was not waste of time or ‘stupidity.’ It went a long way to reaffirm previously known facts, and taught us many new ones.

          Maybe other can chime in here, and do a better job explaining it to you …

        • arealjeffersonian says:


          First, you haven’t responded to my question re your own experience with a 501C(3). Perhaps your experience was different from Sibel’s and we could all learn from the different perspective of an experienced person such as yourself.

          As to your question to Sibel as to why she chose to do this podcast, my own take is that it wasn’t devoted to the pros and cons of a 501C(3), but rather to relating her first hand experience as to what happens when a person, or group, try to organize and and/or raise funds so they can have a greater influence/effect – and to the hows, whys, and whos of NGOs. To me this podcast is very enlightening – eyeopening, and brings home to me my own naivety in this area – I’m now looking at NGOs in an entirely different light. I’ve donated to some of the very same ones Sibel refers to, thinking I was doing “my share”, that they needed my help, to do the “good” they promote. Now I have to think long and hard, and become far more informed on activities, make up the org, etc, before even thinking of donating again. Maybe I’m becoming a cynic, maybe I should be

          As to the Wright Brothers comment – come on!

          • Thank you, Jeffersonian.

            One aspect I neglected to mention: How these NGOs become impediments to individuals taking action … So your point was a reminder on that. Thanks.

          • Mgrdichian says:

            The 501c3 I was involved in forming was a media organization within the Armenian-American community. The year was 1988. Two months after our status was approved a disastrous earthquake devastated Armenia and all of our potential funding sources were directed toward earthquake relief. So we disbanded it, save one live telethon we broadcast to raise money for earthquake victims.

    • Mgr: It does NOT work that way. Throughout your operation you need to have experts to ensure the actions you are engage in, the things you spend time/resources, …. are all in compliance with their rules.

      For ex: Congressional hell-raising: how many hours did the org spend? What resources did it use? Was it more 10% of total time/resources? If yes, get investigated, and get dragged into courts (and spend more $$$$$ on attorneys to be represented).

      Example 2: We were preparing media exposes to showcase in various states (radio/etc.) to let people know who these candidates they were going to cote for really were. Doing that would have been in violation of 501 C (3) status.

      Also, there are dozens of cases out there showing that: when Mega NGOs with Mega Sugar Daddies violate a thing or two,, nothing happens. However, the tiniest violation (or appearance of violation) by a real straight-forward organization (who challenges the gov) are used by the gov to pursue legally, criminally … until they bankrupt/destroy …

      Anyhow. I did not want to take up too much time making the episode long to explain these points. But yes: I’ve always been a nerd. I study those codes, I consulted with several ‘experts,’ I interviewed people who were wiped out by the gov when they operated 501 C (3) … and I can tell you with 100% certainty: NO way. Maybe if you are one within a different category of activities: food banks, charity for homeless, etc. But as far as those for supposed Gov accountability, against Gov secrecy, etc.: NO WAY, Jose.

      • Joshua Roberts says:

        Its an important edifying discourse on the underlying metrics of co-opting functionally oppositional operations – and it is vitally important for a whole panoply of reasons. Slaving the interest and capital of well-intentioned people is a particularly good point for instance, as it illustrates the core methodology of force containment. The NGOs capture and nullify force that would otherwise impact the agenda via gatekeeper organizations and one primary means of doing this is to hijack and co-opt anything of substance until it becomes a gatekeeper organization (in addition to manufacturing them out-rightly). Someone like Noam Chomsky is a living example of this for instance, he offers people a narrative and worldview that slaves their opposition to a structure which denudes any potential force, actively slaving potential opposition to the NWO’s great game and directing people’s ire at adjuncts and hijacked puppet subsidiaries like the state dept. – reinforcing the “down with the great Satan” meme, even as the NWO is actively dismantling western civilization. And the people who fund him engineer the very regional wars he gets people riled up over. Ultimately the goal of chaos is thusly achieved and instead of there being hearty organizations to sort through the chaos and educate people, they all end up locked in 501 (c) (3) control schemas because their originators meant well but lacked Edmonds’ intuition and dead reckoning capabilities.

        I could go on, but I will digress, the value of such edifying work is prima facie.

        • 344thBrother says:

          You may suffer from over alliterative dalliance upon needlessly verbose sentence construction!

          No offense, for me it makes your good posts harder to read.

  8. Brilliant! First, dig a hole, then say “Come, Sibel, let’s walk in the woods. It’s such a beautiful day.” Side note on gifts and charity: if it don’t hurt, it’s not charity — tax exempt “giving” is not really giving at all. What a cleverly designed trap. Sibel, your honest, analytical mind serves you well.

  9. CuChulainn says:

    i wish you would involve Doug Valentine in this discussion, his research is very complementary to Sibel’s experience. DV is an unheralded national treasure.

  10. Doug Valentine says:

    Hi all, if there’s a specific question I can answer, I’d be glad to try.

    • Joshua Roberts says:

      So cool. (⌐■_■)
      Some general commentary on the subject matter would be delightful – but perhaps someone has a more pointed inquiry.

    • Hi Doug,

      We covered the classic methods used by the deep state to coopt viable movements. The usual: they come with ‘kindness’ and offer to fund you (The usual foundations: Soros, Rockefeller, etc.), BUT you have to do certain things for that ;’kindness’: Set up as 501 C (3), have a board of advisors (bring in guys like Bob Woodward, Solomon, etc.), have a board of director (select from various Soros baby groups, etc.) … become Mega, and then spend 90+% of your time on fundraising to sustain your staff … and basically, become another ‘system’ player.’

      By the way, I mentioned how your guy Mort Halperin happen to show up for all ‘strategic’ meetings at ACLU/POGO/GAP/etc.

  11. i’m so pessimistic. your story reveals the circus establishment-friendly and funded orgs really are. though i think it’s a possibility these things can backfire on the funders and the connected themselves, it seems anything done with USD is down a beautifully paved path of the best intentions, and we know where that gets us…

    • Exactly, kariflack. It also acts as a buffer zone: some people think they are contributing to/joining activism movements by donating to these organizations- They ‘let them’ handle things on their behalf, while these organizations are there as a layer of protection for the system. Thus, deservedly termed ‘controlled opposition.’

      • yes. for some reason this phrase and its production gets short shrift from people i know who should know better. i don’t understand, i’ve seen individuals join such things with selfless intentions and they just get steamrolled. stressed that they know they can’t do more, and stressed with the horrific events that they are witness to and can do nothing meaningful about (in NATO bombed regions, for example).

        also i appreciate your mention of the loudest and least active members in groups toward the beginning of the podcast. i was briefly involved in an Occupy satellite in the area i was in, and i went in realizing how fudged its origins were. still, i was in a truly grassroots position with the alternate education job i had (being paid very poorly, no luxury saviorism there!) and i was hoping to be able to rein in some volunteers or support from people who ostensibly wanted change.

        there was one person in particular who more or less appointed herself leader, because of her and her family’s background in union organizing. loud, had all the ideas we all needed, and found reasons to knock down my own protest ideas. then i found out her dad had been machine democrat fund raiser and was running for an office at that time. i don’t know that she had a specific agenda or covert or whatever, and i will probably never know. but it was the same script.

  12. CuChulainn says:

    may i ask Sibel if these names mean anything to you–Güler Köknar, Rudolph Haluk Bey Daus, Bernard Gainer?

    • I’m familiar with Koknar- She’s been an active participant in a shady network … and all that goes to my good ole case- State Secrets Privilege.

      I’m not familiar with the other two.

      Also, I want to make sure we stay within our topics. In this case Mega NGOs/Foundations & Cooptation of viable movements.

      Is Koknar a player in international NGOs? Yes. But not the kind we are discussing here.

  13. SIBEL: I think there is part of a way out,. It is right in front of us. I might add I got so damned burnt out back in the day–even in 2004-2008 with groups that would fade on their own. The 60s, 7os groups were all watched, penetrated and blackmailed by J Edgar Hoover( FBI)–check out COINTELPRO –PEOPLE OUTRIGHT MURDED! That led to my cynicism and hopelessness. It is almost a n Axiom;” all rather Large anti-cover-up and peace groups will deteriorate and be infiltrated.”. Not only will the deep State smear/crush it, Entropy kicks in–I’m talking physics here and the 2nd law of thermodynamics(‘excuse the nerd talk, but it is one of the fundamentals of the Universe). And it increasing as we speak.
    This particular formant we have through some serious 8 sessions now is, as I mentioned, unlike anything I’ve seen on the web! Sure there are radio talk-ins(which I was on) and one can comment freely on virtually any blog. Check out the comment section on James Corbett Blog–as Sibel earlier noted it is pandemonium and crawling with trolls. Try Abby Martin Comments–it is troll/asshole time!! Who wants to comment among the garbage, knowing your comment will never be read! Search yourself. do not take my word for it.

    O.K. my modest proposal, as it were. Begin to make it know that the writers/leaders of the blog(e.g,,, James C., or Peter B. Gavin, Guillermo or any others we/Sibel know) what they care to try. They don’t even have to be as ambitious and such a 24/7 WARRIOR like you are Sibel. How about a 30- 40$ a yr. subscription and the leaders spending 1-3 days on and off interfacing with paid subscribers(commenters) You have set the MOLD SIBE!!!! It would be a shame–a damn crying shame if this format thread faded into oblivion. And they ()LEADERS) Should NOT or look for EXPERTS, LEADERS, OR POPULAR PEOPLE. I REFER TO YOU HERE, SIBEL– what do you think about the majority of us? Are we knowledgeable? Do many of us know what the Deep State is up to? Are we sick and tired, and angry? Are we sharp? my answer IS “Hell Ya!” And I just know with James actually commenting in “real time” he would find a similar bunch of commenters And how does Abby Martin do it? I can’t see her even reading the comments—such pervasive 1 sentence schoolyard crap!
    We need not stop with your staff… I could go on and on Max Keiser, Stacy Herbert, Michael Hudson; A returning vet from Iraq suffering the affects of DU(2000 tons of US DU were used in Iraq)–upon explosion it tuned to micro- even nano- particle size!! Some is now orbiting then globe. THANKS AGAIN SIBEL, and forgive my endless typos.

    • 344thBrother says:

      @ron. Cointelpro… yeah
      I think I personally ran afoul of FBI Cointelpro type agents myself once and it came about because I was posting a lot of stuff in a forum about FBI and their manufactured “Terrorism” events. I was trying to get agents from the FBI Fusion Center nearby to open a dialogue with me about what their operation entailed etc. . It became a debate, then I got sarcastic with them, then I started posting things about the Oklahoma City Bombing, WACO, 911 etc. .

      This is in the Northern California area, and they weren’t really going after me hard until I brought up the Judy Bari bombing and how the FBI LOST the case she raised against them for framing her for blowing her own self up. (If you’re not familiar with this case, it’s classic and amazingly idiotic, definitely worth a little look.) There’s stuff on youtube about it as well.

      After I started in on Judi Bari, all of a sudden, it was character assassination bonanza against me. I assume, but have no way of knowing that some individual involved with that Gladio style attack on a citizen with a bomb, was getting mad at what I posted. Possibly they were still in the area. Anyway, I’m positive Cointelpro, or whatever they’re calling it nowadays, is still active and still full of dirty tricksters. It pays to watch out and not be surprised. Most of these plots are idiotic and easy to spot, but, Judi Bari literally got her ass blown off for speaking their mind about the clear cutting of the old growth redwood forests. Then they tried to prosecute HER for bombing HERSELF. It was really disgusting and pathetic.

      Right now I’m listening to the BFP special episode about the young anarchist who was set up by an FBI plant to blow up a dam *snicker*, and how he did 9 years for it but was released by a Judge unexpectedly. Very interesting.

      Hang in there bro, the hippie movement went underground, but didn’t disappear completely

  14. John Phillips says:

    “Money, it’s a hit….don’t give me that do good bullshit!” Pink Floyd

    That’s the name of the game.
    Data/information morsels
    Maybe unmentioned but insinuated sexual opportunities…OMG

    Damn Sibel, they’ve thrown everything at you except a tank! Well maybe not the drugs and sex part, but they certainly have been busy little bees. If one seduction doesn’t work another will follow, as your story clearly illustrates.

    This may be the toughest question you will ask of us. We all have egos, needs, etc. and combined with a passionate objective can leave one vulnerable to many seductions.

    Between your “gut feelings” and your intellect, you seem to be doing very well. Always be aware of the sociopath and psychopath since they can be the most charismatic, pervasive and manipulating of anyone you will ever know.

    Trust yourself be true to yourself. You are not alone, whether “we” are actively participating or observing.
    All the Best

  15. Doug Valentine says:

    For some reason William Colby, the former DCI, decided to help me write my book on the CIA’s Phoenix program. In 1984 he started referring me to senior CIA officers who were part of the Phoenix program and/or its component parts. Some of these CIA guys believed I was CIA – why else would Colby sponsor me – and so they violated their secrecy oaths and revealed all sorts of secrets. Others started getting suspicious and started checking in with CIA Central. By 1987 I was controversial within the CIA. Their first response was to co-opt me. In 1988, Bob Wall, a senior CIA officer, offered to get me a job as a researcher on the Armed Services Committee starting at $80,000 a year. In return he would get to edit my book. I turned him down. Meanwhile William Morrow publishers hired John Prados to read the manuscript and he said it was great. I got a contract. The book came out in 1990, and was given by The New York times to former VN correspondent Morley Safer (a guy who does what Chris Hedges did) to review. In the book I said the CIA and NY Times collaborated and that Phoenix would not have been possible without that collaboration. So Safer and the NY Times killed the book, on their own behalf and on behalf of the CIA. I was inside for a little while then kicked out and the steel door came down. When I went to interview Acting Director Steve Greene at the DEA in 1994, the Public Affairs guy at HQ told me the CIA had called the day before and asked that Greene not speak to me. The CIA said I was trying to get at them (which was true). But the DEA guy hated the CIA, which is always subverting DEA cases, and decided to help me anyway.

    So folks, I have an unique perspective on this. I’m a true adversary of the CIA, not someone who was co-opted. but I can tell who has been co-opted, because they avoid me: Amy Hoodwink at Hypocrisy Now! The Nation, Mother Jones, The Greenwald/Scahill Intercept – all the “Compatible Left (meaning CIA connected media empires) have avoided me like the plague throughout my career. I can basically tell who has been co-opted by who refuses to publish me. It’s a very closed society with very strict rules. Guy like CIAmour Hersh (from the old school) and Greenwald/Scahill currently are promoted by the Compatible Left media because they are basically CIA propagandists posing as rogues. But they never, if you’ll notice, reveal anything damaging about the CIA, although they are fully aware of the facts. People call it “gate-keeping” and while i don’t like that rem anymore than “false flag” (which is an often misused term), that pretty much is the primary function of people who have been co-opted. They get all sorts of inside information on condition they don’t reveal it, and in exchange become rich and famous.

    • Joshua Roberts says:

      Amy Hoodwink at Hypocrisy Now!
      The Nation
      Mother Jones
      The Greenwald/Scahill Intercept:
      All the “Compatible Left”

      I honestly believe that this entire combine is a shunting maneuver to subtend the burgeoning alternative media. Because they cannot co-opt and or demonize everyone effectively, they have set about creating a multiplicity of gatekeeper media operations (I would throw in stuff like TYT and Glenn beck here) to act as sock puppets and false oppositional fronts. LOL CIAmour Hersh – man Doug, you kill me! What a great post.

      Would love to see an Edmonds / Valentine installment of the Probable Cause podcast!!!!

      Also note how the Compatible Left continues to sew the meme of “America the Great Satan” and never really discusses how we are essentially a hijacked nation used as the pit-bull of the NWO and that we are now effectively in the decommissioning phase (all of western civilization is really) amid the run up to a post-human/transhumanist techno-panopticon. They have the CAPEX done in China and are doing the same thing in the finance end of the pool via JPMwhistleblower etc, fixing the gold/silver fix and such – COMEX/LBMA paper hologram is now being openly revealed to the slaves while the SGE is hyper-physical (at least for now, because this is how you sell a con). Meanwhile, the NWO cartel combine created modern China and successively installed yat-sen, kai-shek, tse-tung, hell every major industry in China was fostered by the usual suspects, Rockefeller’s Standard Oil created the Chinese oil industry and now you have CNOOC drilling the offshore Iceland hydrocarbons etc. They are actively pulling the plug on their fiat hologram in the west while printing like gangbusters and have LI/LOed most of the on-book above ground gold over to the Asian black box markets where they will never have to answer to public scrutiny ever again after price discover is set in free-trade zonelandia.

      As with the snowden psyop, they reveal the agenda to the slaves in order to move the process along and Condition people to accept their fate. In the case of the NSA spygrid (lets include here everything from obamacare health big data transparency, to smart grid tech and driverless cars, not to mention intelligent machine data sniffing/trunking/flashing) – one of the primary utilities of such an engine is that it is a weapon to chill free speech or genuine whistleblowing, what good is such an awesome weapon if you cannot Threaten people with it? We have known since patriot Acts 1/2 that they are hoovering all the data (extant snowden powerpoints from 2001 merely show us the middleware implementation of this established reality, yawn) – but the slaves still didn’t savvy, so they had to manufacture an intelligence community avatar like snowden, a movie star and narrative, really hit people over the head with it…

      This dovetails imo with the perpetuation of the core myth at the core of computational complexity theory, i.e. that you do not need a truly non-deterministic process to simply brute force 90% of extant sub military-grade encryption (even layered) in linear time, all you need are quantum computing chipsets that can heuristically tunnel through the complexity. Notice how google and apple are both getting fat now selling soft encryption to the slaves on the back of the snowden psyop? If I am correct, such encryption is merely a form of meta-tagging your data so the NSA has an easier time knowing what to spy on (as opposed to most traffic which is just sheep watching TV, celebrity gossip and porn etc.) – this has been a major issue for NSA< they have the algos, they have the hardware, but the problem has been how to effectively identify what, out of this glut of data, is actually worth looking at more closely and monitoring actively.

      I digress, I have gone far afield here, sorry for the seemingly rambling reply, but I think some people will understand how this all nexuses together.

      Your amazing commentary really lit my mind on fire Doug. Thank you so much for contributing!

      • Joshua,

        “If I am correct, such encryption is merely a form of meta-tagging your data so the NSA has an easier time knowing what to spy on (as opposed to most traffic which is just sheep watching TV, celebrity gossip and porn etc.) – this has been a major issue for NSA< they have the algos, they have the hardware, but the problem has been how to effectively identify what, out of this glut of data, is actually worth looking at more closely and monitoring actively."

        Superb. I'd bet dollars to donuts you've nailed it. Trick the sheeptards into sorting themselves into "semi-awake" versus "asleep". I say semi-awake because I think the highest state of awareness has necessarily reconciled to the reality of the Panopticon.

        The eventual outworking of quantum computing applied to "detangle" quantum entanglement, may the death of all privacy and secrets. Past, present and future. A world we simply can't imagine, any more than someone in Medieval ages could have imagined the world of today.

    • CuChulainn says:

      wouldn’t it be great to hear discussion between Doug Valentine and Sibel.
      Doug’s story shows what a threat one man (or woman) of integrity can be
      talking about revolution, never more timely was Orwell’s saying that in times of universal deception telling the truth is a revolutionary act
      probably the most revolutionary, because telling the truth when people are mired in lies is disinterested, brave, and kind; what else matters?
      Any mainstream journalist who can count to ten backwards knows that reporting stories on subjects considered taboo is a waste of time, because they will never get air.
      Taboos don’t just exist in places like Borneo, and among people in the pictures in National Geographic. They exist here, too. Right here. Right now.
      The real fun, Gary Webb told me once, is in dragging the dead body (the taboo subject) out from under the bed, and then watching what happens. He was right.
      Even though it pays less than anything I’ve done since I was twenty, I’ve got the best job in the world. Before I shuffle off this mortal coil, I have a fighting chance of finding out just what the hell had been going on while I was alive.

    • 344thBrother says:

      Very interesting and informative Doug and good job!
      I don’t suppose it’s possible to purchase your book anywhere now? I’d love to have one.
      Amy (I want my paycheck now!) Hoodwink… Gatekeeper who gatekeeps prospective gatekeepers… yeah.

      I hope you keep posting Doug
      peace freedom truth justice

    • Doug, I’m with 344thBro here re my interest in getting a copy of your book.

  16. Thanks, Sibel, for another insightful show indeed, and a special thanks to Doug for chiming in on the interesting discussion. When Sibel says ‘Mega-funded angels with roledexes’, I think this perfectly articulates this particular NGO problem, this is very well said.

    Is it too idealistic/radicalistic to remain ‘virgin’ of compromises? Absolutely not. If the world had more geniune, uncompromising idealists, the beast’s NGO tentacle would not have so many suckers on it. Not sure how to hack this one. If the supply on the market for funds is dominated… by people with all the funds, and the suppliers of those mega-funds have essentially hacked the market by falsely advertising its product as cash from the heavens, how is any genuine group to source its funds, if all the funds are from dirty angels? This in a way brings us back to the overarching theme of combating the deep state. How do we do such a thing without matching their resources? Brick by brick I suppose? So it becomes not a game of matching the beasts resources, but a extremely difficult game of patience and restraint, resisting the lure of the ‘angels’ tempting trap. But the slow road isn’t satisfactory, while we are faced with strong urgency to somehow stop US/NATO warlords and its very immediate killing and killing and killing, among other things. So we are caught in a push and pull of urgency and patience. To remain uncompromising is to be patient in the person to person, group to group, brick by brick changes. Is there an answer to this problem? Putting aside the indoctrination issue, which we’ve well discussed, how does a group gain strength and then actually reach the large audience of the masses?

    So if we imagine we are a group that has somehow secured funds from bonified angels, and has enough pecuniary strength, the next level is the bridge to the masses, the media. I recently rewatched Doug’s talk at that NY book store recently on his Phoenix book, which I recommend by the way, and which he briefly touched on here in the comments, here we have a researcher/writer who writes a book of incredibly damning info, naming names, essentially a whistleblower, but the book is killed. How? Media. Publicity or lack thereof really. So unless we have a Greg McPhearson up our sleeve, how do we… coopt the media for ourselves? Or at least break through that barrier? Is it possible? In the well experienced and wise words of Doug, ‘it is a very closed society with strict rules.’ Or can the internet be leveraged hard enough for self publishing books or press releases? Which is the slow road… but is the slow road gaining traction?

  17. 344thBrother says:

    One thing that interests me is their throwing of grandmotherly/hippy types at you Sibel. I’m curious, do you feel that they did some serious psychological modeling on you to come up with the “types” that you’d be most likely to respond to and be comfortable with?

    The whole thing is just creepy as hell.

    • I think majority of their targets would be likelier to be weary of ‘flashy’ looking angels. You know how in the movies the ‘money’ evil is represented? So pick those who would represent the opposite type: activists, spiritual, holistic, down-to-earth … not threatening at all. Easier to let go of our guards when you are presented with ‘that’ type. It is a about ‘the image.’ For example: When you want to coopt and gain the trust of the population segment into antiwar activism, anti mega -corporations, do you go with ‘Donald Trump’ type, or, do you groom and present ‘Amy Goodman’ like?

      Another point to consider: This was during Bush Presidency. With the ongoing game of ‘partisanship’ to divide and conquer in full effect. Thus, the NGOs/Money doing the targeting and coopting were among the left (same-o-same-o deep state in blue). You reverse this, when the Right (same-o-same-o deep state in red) capitalized on movements/whistleblowers popping up against the left admin.

      • 344thBrother says:

        @Sibel Understood, thank you.

        I have a brief personal example of manipulation by patterning.

        Long ago, I got a part time job marketing (of all things) magnetic pain relief devices by a big Japanese corporation. (Interestingly enough, I did some research on people I tried them out on and either the placebo effect was higher than normal (85+%) or they actually did work. Anyway, at one point I was required to take a 2 day “How to sell” course paid for by them. During that course, we had an exercise where we paired off and one person was the “seller” and one was the potential buyer. First the seller would anti-parrot the buyers unconscious motions. Buyer leans forward, seller leans back, buyer relaxes, seller tenses, etc. . right down to watching breathing patterns etc. .
        Next, seller Parrots the buyer, mimicking all the behaviors of the buyer. After each scenario the buyer is interviewed about their perceptions of the seller. It’s called “Patterning” and it’s extremely effective. When the seller mimicked the buyers mannerisms, the buyer liked, trusted, related much better to the seller and vice versa. It worked every time.

        After this demonstration of how easy people are to subconsciously manipulated, I walked out of the training class in disgust and turned in all my samples. Good products, nasty sales techniques.

        Buyer beware for sure.

  18. Sibel, you summed it up nicely, as always, while adding your own unique touches. You can always make me laugh- no matter the nature of the content. Got to love the stereotype all amerikan hippy looking activist…and the interjection the song…I will share my experience- while hoping to stay on topic.
    Oh, btw, they don’t sing kumbaya at AA meetings, it’s not a non profit, it’s self supporting through contributions. Both my brothers died young of alcoholism.
    Moving on to life in the NGO’s world;.
    I was very curious about on one group locally, (it was listed as NGO- after some of my experiences in the NGO world… I wasn’t trusting much) they had an office in Philadelphia. I knew Gov Rendell allowed Israeli spies in Pennsylvania by way of ITRR. The Institute of Terrorism Research and Response which “is an American and Israeli corporation established to assist companies and organizations succeed in a world threatened by terrorism.” Their page has since changed. You can find it now as ISRAEL DEFENSE.
    After teaching in Tanzania in 2008, I was eager to do more. I didn’t want to go back with the same group I went with. For a non profit, this company was clearly in the game for profit- and for what I paid to “serve” there I could have done with less and given the community more, but that’s me. My travel companions were gov lackeys (heeere’s your sign)
    I was interested in starting my own NGO, and learned to write my own grants…meanwhile, I became part of an international NGO which stated they sought help for these countries. One of the new women placed in charge had no clue how to handle being a position of authority, and thought it would be a good project for me to chronologue ALL NGO’s- not just those related to our project. That was never going to happen in her life time.
    Interestingly I wrote a grant for myself to be able to access NGO databases- Guidestar and Charity Navigator, what I found were a lot of shady looking NGO’s. I found myself hitting a new level of bitterness.
    I had also joined up with another project in Uganda, but before I knew it, businesses and NGO;s were being set up using my PERSONAL info. Suffice to say- my own experience was not pleasant, which left me weary about supporting anything. I probably have a McPhearson up both sleeves and running loose in my head- because I’ve been ready to roll for the last 10 years…. I’m not afraid of taking action. I’m more afraid of NOT taking action. Oh, NATO is hiring. potus wants more military action… as if it ever stopped. I just shake my head.

    • kmwakak8: You see a lot of that within the mega NGOs’ international operations. This is why it has become the number one ‘cover’ choice for the CIA. Think about it: when everyone knows that embassies, attaches, consulates, are intel operation bases, you begin looking at less conspicuous channels for cover: International arms of NGOs, Foreign correspondents of media.

      We mentioned Soros several times in this episode. Look how many of his funded NGOs operate in Ukraine, Poland, Romania … All with great sounding names: blah blah transparency, blah blah human rights, blah blah freedom of press …

      • Sibel, it’s Kathy, moderately civilized today… Absolutely. For the period of time I had access to the Guidestar data base, I was amazed by location, names of organization- proximity of organization vs. needs- there is no way help could get through. Some had millions, some had very little, they use the title, name and move on. I think I spent more time just going through the list wondering how many were credible.
        I was in Marketing very early on (between 18-21) One group I worked with has a popular name in every small town USA, and we sent the Chief of Police to jail for fraud & embezzlement.
        I have a census discrepancy on one of my family records- My mom’s grandfather, maternal side was Wilhelm, Germany- my grandmother, Shortened to Has somewhere along route… born in Romania. So, I am painfully aware of inactive children’s organizations, then I see the kids of Romania who live in the subway tunnels and inhale paint thinner just to get through the day. Getting help is hard. While Romania lived under communism, and were permitted no birth control for 3 decades. Women resorted to self induced miscarriages and abortions. Tragic. I have seen, perhaps you have too- adoption lists where children are numbers. You have done work in Russia, though not sure of your experiences.
        During my years in legal facilities, firms, court houses, state and federal buildings I often found myself reading codes and regs especially re: The Civil Rights act, Americans with Disabilities, et al. (my light reading) perhaps inspired by my innate early, childhood realization; man kind was not very kind
        I think I got over the reality of actual transparency….. it’s more transference (blame game)

  19. andrei_tudor says:

    Does anybody have any information that might qualify Jewish Voice For Peace as one of these shady NGO’s? Or conversely, is anyone intimately associated with them who might be able to vouchsafe for their integrity? I’m asking because I donate to them. They are registered as a 501(c)(3), and they do have Chomsky on their advisory board, but they have always looked legit to me.

    I’m thinking of coming up with a sort of info-graphic about NGO’s and their ties to moneyed interests. Something along these lines:

    It might be useful in helping people make informed decisions on who to donate to. I know I’ve fallen into a couple of traps myself in the past (Amnesty International, for example).

  20. 344thBrother says:

    My personal filter, regarding people’s legitimacy is 911 truth. If they don’t know it, they’re uninformed, if they do and keep shut on it, they’re cowards at best and paid off agents at worst.

    Noam Chomsky famously said (Paraphrase) “If 911 was an Inside Job, what difference would it make”?

    Now I have to assume Noam is a paid agent because nobody as smart as him could possibly be that obtuse.

    Not sure if that helped, but it’s all I have for you.


    • andrei_tudor says:

      I see it the same way, David. I really like the guy – his writing on Israel / Palestine, and his Manufacturing Consent have been eye opening for me, but as much as I want to find a justification for his take on 9/11, I just can’t come up with one. Is it possible that someone can be that intelligent in some respects, and a complete fool in others? Sibel, what’s your take on this?

      Going back to Jewish Voice for Peace, Naomi Klein is also on the advisory board, and her writing seems to pop up in all the “right” places – New York Times, The Guardian, The Nation, Huffington Post. Best to stay away. It’s funny how you sometimes find answers to your own questions just by writing them down.

  21. Just a quick note: If you haven’t already, check out this article by Dr. Miller:

    Also, check out his credentials. I am very familiar with his work, and have been communicating with him. He is an MD whistleblower with stellar credentials. You’d never see MSM presenting this side- no way. Imagine if we had 500 X Dr. Miller.

  22. Mgrdichian says:

    Thanks for the link provided for this podcast to the story about John Kiriakou. It’s an interesting case study on a few levels. Since his release from prison is currently in the news (e.g. RT, Pando, Counterpunch, DemocracyNow, FireDogLake, etc.) it would be a perfect current-day example for another podcast to compare and illustrate how stories like this are being handled by various media outlets (MSM and alternative) and to what end, especially since most of these outlets are regularly criticized and scrutinized here at BFP. Since a new aspect of his story is now unfolding, a little “mind-prep” here would be invaluable to everyone. There’s no time like the present.

    • Once in a while I find some really good journalistic pieces at Pando. This one popped up as I was preparing for this episode.

      Kiriakou: what aspect/angle do you have in mind. He and I communicated while he was in prison. I don’t know much about him. My knowledge of his case: limited to everything you guys have seen/read via same channels.

      • Mgrdichian says:

        “My knowledge of his case: limited to everything you guys have seen/read via same channels”

        But your insights vis-a-vis your experiences as a gagged whistleblower who took her cause to the highest levels, and the connections you have at high levels of govt., certainly overshadows anything I’ve ever encountered or pursued, and I’m sure the same holds true for many of us here. So your opinion is significant to me, even more than my own in many ways.

        Part of the import of this thread is that media outlets, even “alternative” outlets, are co-opted, compromised and part of controlled opposition vis-a-vis foundations and grants. The Kiriakou case is very significant — it challenges covert CIA operations and goes to the heart of US involvement in, and the very definition of torture, not to mention the backlash against whistleblowers. So it would be enlightening to me to hear an informed analysis of how the co-opted compromised alternative media demonstrates precisely how they have been compromised, demonstrated in the way they report and opine on this story. It seems to me that information about the Kiriakou case is exactly the type of information the govt.. would want to keep a lid on, and that the ways it controls co-opted media would be apparent to people with “inside” experience. If you don’t think the Kiriakou case has the significance I’m attributing to it, I’d like to hear that, too. And why.

        Simply, it’s a resurfacing important story that is being widely reported. So insights into how the co-opted alternative media is either twisting the information, spinning it to their own ends, or avoiding aspects altogether would be useful to me as I read what they all have to say. But given that my reference point is extremely limited, it’s hard for me to discern what is fact, twisted fact, siphoned, diluted, or just plain wrong…. or right.

        If you don’t feel you’re in a position to illuminate aspects of how the Kiriakou case is being reported, I respect that. Knowing one’s limits is as important as knowing one’s strengths.

        • MGR: All good points. I see what you mean. I am going to spend some time and review the latest coverage of his case by the media (MSM & alternative), and form an informed/educated opinion on how it’s been played so far.
          Last year, I read a few articles/analyses @ FireDogLake (I think they were by Kevin Gozstola), and they all seemed very good and without any particular spin (I know they’ve been left-leaning, but I have found some really good work/analyses and opinion pieces there.).

          Did the powers try to set an example with his case? Show what happens if you go against the beast (imprisonment)? Did they use it as a tactic to intimidate and discourage other potential whistleblowers (with the fear of incarceration)? Was this a prelude to other cases of imprisonment (for the dissent & WBs); such as Sterling case?

          I think my answer would be: Yes. A definite yes. This is a new trend. Ellsberg did not go to jail even after conviction. In the last few years we have had Leibowitz (FBI analyst/translator), Manning, Kiriakou … now Sterling.

          Are they massaging the public, and getting them inoculated/desensitized to the fact that now their government is imprisoning the dissent/truth-tellers/whistleblowers? Is this the beginning of a more belligerent and bold retaliation phase against the dissent/whistleblowers?

          Again, my answer would be a definite ‘yes.’

          • thnx, BTW I was introduced to FireDogLake by a reference here at BFP. IMO an example how minds are organically coalescing to create a formidable opposition.

            “Is this the beginning of a more belligerent and bold retaliation phase against the dissent/whistleblowers? Again, my answer would be a definite ‘yes.’”

            In my trusted activist circles we take it as evidence that our opposition is being felt….. and silently pat ourselves on the back.

          • 344thBrother says:

            “Are they massaging the public, and getting them inoculated/desensitized to the fact that now their government is imprisoning the dissent/truth-tellers/whistleblowers? Is this the beginning of a more belligerent and bold retaliation phase against the dissent/whistleblowers? ”

            I hope not, but you know what they say, wish in one hand… defecate in the other, see which fills up faster. (It doesn’t have quite the same punch substituting politically correct words… insert the word of your choice).

            But… my answer would also be YES. And for what little I personally do, thanks for that pat on the back.

          • Spreading “democracy”:

            “A bill submitted by an MP from President Poroshenko’s party in the Ukrainian parliament seeks to criminalize public speech that reject the government’s narrative on the civil war, which it describes as a Russian military invasion.” —

  23. I am new here, but I’ve learned a lot from you Sibel and for that I am truly grateful!

    I have endeavored to catch up in my listening to the podcasts, which is difficult while working full time, but am way behind in reading comments, so sorry if these thoughts have already been covered. You asked at the end of this podcast if you are naïve to remain virgin in giving up your integrity and still move forward. The short answer is of course not, but the how to do it intelligently is where it gets controversial. I don’t believe in fighting the sophistication of the deep state directly. Since WWII and accelerating since the 1980 election, it’s ability to defang dissent has been truly a painful marvel to behold. As you saw after leaving the Bureau, it is impossible to achieve justice through the system when the system itself is the issue. So knowing this, why would anyone try? I wondered as I listened to your excellent podcasts what you would say to your father if you could go back in time and talk to him just as you were about to be born. Given all that you have seen, all that has happened, all that you have learned, what would you say to that incredibly intelligent, brave and passionate man? Would you beg him not to piss off Savak and be tortured? Would you tell him not to work with the religious radicals to overthrow the monarchy, the puppet of the US? Given how it all played out, how would you have advised him to live in the world that he found himself in? How does one live in a world where psychopaths rule with impunity, ruthlessness, and with knowledge and systems of impressive comprehensiveness grown over time and experience when one sees it clearly?

    Well I’m not particularly anxious for revolution. I can hear the boos! Society is complex. The systems necessary to run it with some order must evolve over time. The problem we now face is that the sheeple have been bread for weakness for some time. They can neither think for themselves, handle emotional nor physical discomfort for long, their immune systems are weakened from poor food, vaccines, medications by the bag full, they have little will for societal issues, and they are horribly educated. So many branches of knowledge have been perverted by an educational system that is geared to the perpetuation of the deep state. Truth is not even sought in many disciplines. Economics and medicine are two of the most obvious. So how could they/we possibly keep the psychopaths at bay and not wind up with something just as bad or even worse? The general public has neither the will nor the knowledge to pull it off.

    So how do you stay virgin?
    1. Keep your overhead low. Then you don’t feel that you have to compromise to survive.
    2. Continue to keep your eyes open and your truth detector running full blast.
    3. Continue to learn and share with like minded souls. This will help to seed the herd for the harvest that will come when the time is right.
    4. Patience!! The change that we yearn for can’t happen in our time frame. As you so beautifully outlined, there is not a populace out there that could support freedom and tolerance. I think that there are far more psychopaths out there than potential BFP members 🙁 The Libertarian movement has long been connected with Austrian Economics and free markets. This generally translates in allowing corporations to do anything they want. While there is a small and growing segment of this movement that is moving past that it is still small.
    5. Enjoy life within this very imperfect world. We are still primitive as a species in our ability to play together in the sandbox. Until our education system becomes geared to the needs of the students and to truth, our evolution will be slow because a lot of our evolution will involve greater development of awareness and understanding on many levels.

    I think that my answer will probably prove unpopular, but it honestly reflects my current level of understanding. Hopefully I will be educated by yourself and fellow members.


    • Mandela,

      How I love reading comments like this!: eloquent, articulate; critical thoughts expressed concisely.

      My father: I think, just like me, he wouldn’t change a single thing. It is one of those battles that is not determined by a single ‘win’ or ‘loss.’ During my youth I used to cringe when people said ‘good things come out of all sorts terrible things/events.’ As I am getting older, I see how this holds true.

      I admit: I lost every single battle during my WB journey (courts, congress, media …). On the other hand, I gained a lot. And I believe, even if indirectly, others did as well; however small.

      “Well I’m not particularly anxious for revolution. I can hear the boos! “- I can’t imagine anyone ‘booing’ this sincere observation. This is why we kept going after defining what we mean by ‘revolution’ and talked about the radical ones followed by ‘the morning after.’ Astute.

      “1-Keep your overhead low. Then you don’t feel that you have to compromise to survive.” Always wise. Bigness promotes bureaucracy, inefficiency, corruption; it becomes its own beast and its beastly battle to survive & sustain itself.
      “2. Continue to keep your eyes open and your truth detector running full blast.” – Absolutely.

      “4. Patience!! The change that we yearn for can’t happen in our time frame.” – True, and for me, one of the hardest things to accept, and put in practice. I keep reverting back to John Maynard Keynes and his ‘in long-term, long-run, we’ll be all dead.’ But you are right, and I shall remind myself every day.

      “5. Enjoy life within this very imperfect world.”- One of my top 5 commandments. Maybe the single most important reason I’m still standing (kind of;-). People, in this part of my life, are used to seeing me serious, battle-minded, intense … I am sure they’d have a hard time picturing me as someone who loves laughter, and capable of being a total goof-ball. ‘Balancing’ is a ‘must.’ I think my father would have said this same exact thing, and he practiced it in his life; every single day. He was utterly funny and fun loving, a great nurturing parent, gold medal champion in wrestling and sprinter … all that, in addition to being a life-long activist, an idealist doctor, and a real fighter.

      See, from your comment I now have two possible podcast episode topics in mind:-) Welcome to our discussions, and please don’t stop sharing with us your thoughts and observations (and criticism as well).

      • Yes Sibel, we all have our learning path and as you said, couldn’t and wouldn’t change a thing. The same goes for me. I also have learned wonderful things from that which seemed tragic at the time. Over the years I have gained perspective that even shows up in the midst of “bad times”.

        Wow, your dad sounds like a amazing person! You are blessed to have had a father like him as I’m sure that he felt in having a daughter like you.

      • Sibel! let me say we are damn lucky to have you establish this amazing(to me revolutionary) format. I don’t know how you do it…but keep it for everybody’s sake. No matter what, good will come of it!

      • Mandela and Sibel,

        Thank you for contributing your part here to another incredible BFP podacast and COMMENT thread.

        I am truly thrilled by and in awe of the intellect and experience of the ‘average’ reader of this podcast and agree with Ron’s point about the infestation of trolls on most alt media sites; my own experience has lead me to comment rarely on any site because of the ‘pandemonium’ in the air.

        Mandela, I agree with Sibel’s response to your concern that your answer would ‘prove unpopular’ here. Far from it. Your story is as valid as the rest of ours and adds to the quality of the conversation here. And I found your strategic points to be very sound, in my genuinely humble experience compared to most of you here.

        Sibel – another fabulous podcast and a fun one to listen to in spite of the gravity of the information. Thank you for shedding light on a subject which has perplexed me for years.

        My response to your closing question, ‘Is it too idealistic/radicalistic to remain ‘virgin’ of compromises?’ is NO. Absolutely not.

        One thing I know is that we humans ARE inspired by exemplars. We DO find our own strenghts through the examples of strength in others. This is partly why we have lost our way… because the truly great have been suicided, cherry picked or in some way co-opted into our collective amnesia or some kind of false history. We are given Marvel Comic heroes when we need mum and dad heroes. Brave old ladies who speak up to cops or TSA agents or 16 year old school leavers who recognise that the water they have been swimming in is full of sharks. And they say so.

        You are one such hero. As was your dear father, by the sound of it.

        Please don’t stop being as doggedly idealistic as you are. I cannot imagine what it has been like to go through what you (and others on this thread) have been through. But I CAN recognise courage and integrity when I see it and I thank you and the others here who are likewise in possession of those traits, for being an inspiring example to me.


  24. CuChulainn says:

    “The Libertarian movement has long been connected with Austrian Economics and free markets. This generally translates into allowing corporations to do anything they want.” yup!!! free markets are a fiction, designed to mystify the transfer of regulatory control from the political process to corporate and oligarchic interests

    • Yes, there never have been free markets. Economic theory assumes that all exist on a level playing field – with all players equal. This is a fiction. There is unequal power among the players. For example, wages are not set by supply and demand alone, employers use their power/money/influence to set them. .As you said, free markets are a fiction.

      • arealjeffersonian says:

        Cu & Man:

        If you are referring just to the “mega” corps, then I can see where you are coming from. But in the US there are only around 900-1000 of them – those businesses with 10,000 or more employees. While there are approximately 28 million small businesses of less than 500 employees each. And those small businesses do compete in the free market for both customers and employees. And around 10% of them fail each year, replaced by a new 10% start-ups. These small businesses make up a little over 50% of total private activity – based on either revenue or employment. And the ones that fail don’t get government bailouts, they’re on their own, sink or swim on their own merits, as it should be in a free market economy.

        The problem as I see it with the “mega” corporations is that there is government interference in the free market system, with government sanctioned lobbies, with government bailouts of those deemed “too big to fail”, with cooperation & collusion. If ALL businesses had to operate as small businesses do, then we would truly have a free market system, and that perhaps is what libertarians are getting at.

        • Jeffersonian – a very important question, but one that I find terribly complex to respond to. Instead of directly responding I’ll try and show that economics and free markets are not clear terms.
          Economics as an academic discipline is a disaster, a dismal science, by design. Under ideal conditions it is a challenging discipline because it literally has billions of variables, many of them are alive with consciousness and choice. There is no uniformity of phenomena – the past is always different than the present even though there are many commonalities. But economics has never existed under ideal conditions. It was originally called Political Economy because economics and politics are inexorably intertwined. Early on it was recognized that economic policy would have big financial and political effects not only on the populace, but the fortunes of politicians and businessmen. Quickly the “science” was coopted by business and government to teach that which would serve their interests. In other words there is no pure research trying to discover an economics that would improve the standard of living of all. It is just a propaganda tool whose function is to give credibility to desired policies.

          In great simplification economics has followed 2 paths to theory generation:
          1: Thought experiments which imagine what would happen in a world with perfect competition, where all players are equal and markets clear. This is the world of free markets. But free markets cannot exist because power exists and will be exercised to gain desired ends. Take the cost of labor as one of many examples. During Dickensonian times, many workers worked long hours and could barely feed their families. Their employers on the other hand were many times very wealthy. They simply chose to divide their profits in a way that vastly favored their lifestyles over their employees. The market was “free”. Employers were free to exploit their employees’ labor. Then the Fabian Society saw how bad this was for all concerned and succeeded in getting state power to begin to change this. Employee wages and living conditions were much improved. Then laws were changed to allow workers to unionize. Living conditions further improved as this cultivation of worker power was exercised. This continued through the Reagan years when union power was busted by the same government power that had created it in the first place so as enable employers to start moving the ratio of revenue given to employees down.
          2: Mathematical modeling. This is an attempt to reduce economic activity to numbers and use the past as a predictor of the future. It is ridiculous even if you don’t realize that the mathematical formulas are made up to fit the data and rationalize the actions that government desires to do.

          So Jeffersonian, even in the worst dictatorship/controlled economy that you could imagine, small businesses are free to make many decisions on their own in the competition for customers and employees. But this has nothing to do with what would be possible to them if they lived in a world that was interested in creating an environment that would give all a chance to thrive. The US has the highest standard of living in the world not because our markets are freer – less ‘socialism’ – but because we have a huge advantage, which by the way is being thrown away, having the international reserve currency as our national currency. This enables us to run huge international balance of payment deficits and pay for them with money created out of thin air. In other words import more goods than we export and pay for them with funny money.

          Also as a point of information, while we know that the MSM is horrible in regard to the news of the day, the Financial news is much, much worse because it is beyond almost everyone’s understanding, so here they have much greater latitude to hoodwink us.

          • Mandela, thanks for an economics education in few paragraphs.

            You mentioned how the US currency reserve status is being thrown away. Maybe this relates to the US constitutional government having been in fact overthrown in a stealth coup. I think many people are having it sink in, finally, that this has indeed happened, but the fuzzy part is when exactly did it happen, was it done by a foreign entity or domestically or by an international cabal, and did it happen all at once or in stages.

            Whatever the answers to those questions, I get the sense that whoever is running things now, regards the concept of power in terms of the ability to enslave others and inflict suffering, beyond merely the ability to enrich themselves. They seem to think the ultimate power is the power to destroy, and further, that you can’t prove you have such power unless you exercise it.

            One way I’ve heard the philosophy expressed in the work of Milton, “Tis better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven.” They have no qualms to make Earth into Hell in order to retain and increase their power.

          • Knarf, the US currency reserve status is being thrown away through irresponsible economic policy. Having the world reserve currency is a great responsibility. If every country in the world is to trade in your currency and use it for international reserves and country saving, then the actions that you take have grave international ramifications. When the US started to run huge balance of payment deficits while running huge budget deficits at home they devalued the currency making the bonds and cash held internationally worth less and over time worth less still. This has created huge resentment and a desire to change the system so that they wouldn’t be subject to US profligacy. When you add the penchant for the US to impose sanctions and remove a country’s banks from the international check clearing mechanism, it becomes imperative to create an alternate system where the dollar is not the international medium of exchange.

  25. Orwellian Double Speak! Gatekeepers! “Angels.” “money ,money, money”, agent provocateurs, psychopaths lurking, Neocons, American and Brit hotshots in decades old pedophile rings, bankers being “suicided” human trafficking ,CIA running drugs….hell, I’m just getting warmed up here
    @DOUG; how much can you tell us-(non-classified, of course, about your indirect knowledge of drugs–Be it poor Gary Webb( I talked with him on radio) about 2 weeks before he shot himself TWICE in the head! A damn tragedy and the now no. 1 Heroin producer on the planet–Afghanistan? Words? Comments?

    And Sibel did what she did with that wicked 501C3– and she shared all the bullshit with us–wow!! She learned via hard reality!!
    Based on my cursory glance, one must file a form 1023 for the “recognition of (tax) exemption. .of the Internal Revenue Code.” The process takes a minimum of 8-10 hrs. and a lawyer is recommended. Geez! We were talking about trust in earlier episodes! If you go ahead with the reasons behinds Sibel’s 501C3 ALL TRUST IS SUSPENED and a constant red light rings in one’s brain!! You walk into the Deep State!!

  26. CuChulainn says:

    Ron, Doug Valentine wrote two thick books on the topic, based on primary research

  27. 344thBrother says:
  28. Hi Sibel,

    I listened to podcast with a lot of knowing moments. I read some of comments, you know my position – OSC is a law-breaking fraud, MSPB is its law-breaking enabler. This status quo benefits GAP, POGO, federal employee unions, private sector lawyers who specialize in federal employment law, “presstitutes” etc. as it damages our Country and, I claim, threatens civilization.

    I found someone willing to file a professional misconduct complaint against me with TN Board of Engineering, I understand it is going to investigate, meaning I may *finally* have a chance to make my case and have it considered on merits – at least whether I have “reasonable belief” in my claims. We’ll see…..

    Joe Carson, PE
    Knoxville TN

  29. The lights’ll be blinking in the bat cave with this one;)……great post and stream.

  30. John Phillips says:

    While we debate what to do in this forum and partake in endless intellectual exercising, action is required on an everyday basis.

    This week in Demark a private security guard beats a nine year old kid because he didn’t have a train ticket. Well, not having a ticket is worthy of getting beaten by a rent-a-cop, isn’t it? Not!

    The worst is all the people standing around watching not willing to intercede for this kid. There is no greater example of the apathy and lack of action from the public. And there are those that think he deserved it. Someone should have dragged that bastard off the kid!

    Words are just that…words! I’ve got better things to do with my time than debate what to do next. The answer is simple, take action every single day! I’m outta of here.

    Best regards and Good Luck!

    • Presumably John is donning a cape and flying to Denmark. Without need of a plane.

      Seriously, discussing and taking action are not mutually exclusive. Some of us are constrained by age and health to not being able to do much other than support places like this, with money and participation.

      In the course of decades I’ve taken some regrettable actions while my eyes were blinded in red mist. Keep it frosty out there, John.

      • John Phillips says:

        No, there is plenty of work here in the USA to accomplish without going to Denmark. Cape not required! It is the little actions, by individuals, taking smalll actions, saying “No”, filming the beast, standing up for the oppressed when oppression is happening that will do the trick. Someone should have made a citizens arrest on that rent a cop, or at least dragged him off.

        It is not until the individual recognizes his or her responsibility to act before there will be any change. Action is required. Sibel acted, walked the walk….not talked!

        The Five Percent Solution
        If just 5% of us took action, or spoke up in public when need be, or solicitited others to pay attention to what is going on, or refuesed to comply with TSA scans while encouraging others to do the same. If just 5% of us stood up, 5% more would likely stand with us, and another five percent would join them.

        Smalll acts, everyday people change the world…or more appropriately make it a world we want to live in.

        • John, welcome back from being “outta here”.

          Your’e mostly preaching to the choir, I think. Even if you weren’t, mere words aren’t going to fire up very many people to go out and do the right thing if they’ve been meek sheeptards up til now.

          An example, however, is very powerful. Sibel’s example is mostly why we’re here. In my business and personal life, I do my best in small matters and large matters, to set an example of how I expect others to interact with me. Others did the same for me over the years, to my shame at times, so I’m obligated to pass it on. Of course I fail miserably sometimes. The mitigation for failure is to acknowledge it and find a lesson. For the most part, when I do the example thing reasonably well, it it elicits a more positive response than I used to get by complaining, going over heads, and demanding “respect”.

          Only about 3% of the colonists actively fought in the American Revolution. Another 10% or so provided some measure of material support. The remaining vast majority were either sheepish, apathetic, or loyal to the Crown. A motivated (Irate) minority is probably the best we can hope for, and it’s enough if it ensnares the arrogant adversary into overreacting. We all know the story of how the British stepped in it when they sought to disarm and crush the irate minority at the Lexington Common.

          “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Gandhi.

          The thing is, Gandhi didn’t have the NSA to take into account. I’d bet we can safely assume we’re past the “ignore” stage. Therefore it’s imperative to be explemary in every way possible.

    • yes John, the point is not merely to interpret the world but to change it–but we in the USA don’t think historically, and we certainly don’t do Marx–hence we spin our wheels with idle chatter–real thinking is purposeful action (Hegel), and truly practical-critical activity is revolutionary (first thesis on Feuerbach)

    • John,

      Not so fast. You are absolutely right about ‘words, words, words;’ the unending intellectual debates going in circle; pointing to all the ‘whats’ and ‘whys’ without hows. With this forum, we are in the initial stage (less than a month since we started)- the question is: are we going to move towards the action stage. I for one will not continue anything that will prove to be limited to ‘talk.’ There are millions of those blogs/podcast/sites that do just that. We don’t need one more.

      I see a different dynamic here @ BFP community. I think there are possibilities. Will I be proved wrong? Possible. Right? Maybe. We’ll see.

      Our next episode will be a pause to recollect, regroup, discuss some of these points, and then move to the next subtopic.

      P.S.- Your Denmark example: So many of the dynamics we discussed are present in this case. Everyone standing still, waiting to see if someone else will take the needed action, and no one taking it; authority complex; apathy … It covers the ‘evil trinity’ we coined here. That is what I consider our ‘biggest’ enemy, our biggest obstacle. More so than the state’s police, army, corrupt politicians ….

      • Keep it simple.
        Formula for success:
        1. Define your goal, specifically, and make sure it’s attainable
        2. Define how you’re gonna measure success
        3. Find proven models and determine why the models were effective
        4. Make a plan
        5. Act out your plan
        6. Once you’ve accomplished your attainable goal, create a new goal and repeat steps 1 thru 5

      • Exactly Sibel!

        Society can only work if its members learn the components of good citizenship and realize that the abdication of responsibility for making their country work ensures its descent towards fascism. The eternal question is how do we create a love and understanding of the humanistic values that translates into a population that will demand enforcement of the constitution, freedom of the press, tolerance for differences, and dedication to the truth?

        For me this is the only path to long term personal freedom for mankind.

        • Good question. One possible, feasible way, is for it to be done in smaller scale by a smaller group- something to act as a ‘model’ or maybe even ‘possibility.’

          I have had high hopes for the internet- for it, with all its possibilities, to become a medium where models like that gets created, and with those models’ success, acts as a catalyst for others to join, or at least try.

          So far, from what I see, that hasn’t happened. Let’s say with ‘alternative media’ model; what do we see? The major ones are all pseudo-alternatives, directed by the same system. Let’s say Salon. You see the same sugar daddies and the same Mega backers, using the same-o-same-o previous system journalists to spread the same-o propaganda.

          Then, we have millions of individuals running their own so-called media outlets: One–man podcast show here, one-woman video show there, one man analysis blog here, another man’s news site there. None of them successful, at least as far as I am concerned. I personally don’t believe in each individual running with one medium individually. I am not talking about bloated, bureaucratic, large entities either. That doesn’t work either.

          You have to look at it from the users/audience side as well. They are left dizzy. There are millions of one-man news/activism sites. How do they go about checking each one out, vet them out? To get all sorts of needed info, they have to tune in to … what 1000s of sites? Which ones are they going to commit to support? All valid questions. Dizzy-fying and convoluted.

          I am for somewhere in the middle. Independent, completely people-supported mediums as a joint effort of maybe a dozen of people: expert investigative journalists, analysts, radio/podcast hosts/producers, editorial writers, cartoonists, and activism organizers. With ground rules such as: nonpartisan, solely people-supported, independent, etc.

          Again, I am providing examples and offering a couple of possibilities in our coming episode (The episode is a pause to recollect and regroup).

          I am looking forward to every ones’ feedback, criticism, alternative ideas and suggestions after the coming show.

          • I believe this to be correct. People need to learn to listen to one another and to care about each other while dealing with differences of opinion or the creation of action options. These are learned skills. We have been brought up within authoritarian structures, with little training in building consensus in a community. My wife works within the local transitions movement chapter. A group of people decided to provide free wholistic health care to the community one day a month to start. Others joined over time. Much work has gone into learning how to work effectively as a group. Over time this group has grown stronger, without sacrificing its members on any level whatsoever.

            Maybe groups of likeminded people can form groups to create projects to help US citizens envision a path to a country that works for all?? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the next show.

          • andrei_tudor says:

            Sibel, in my opinion, many people are able to separate the wheat from the chaff, even in the midst of such abundance. It takes work, diligence, and a lot of time, but in the end I believe most will come to some sort of personal clarity.

            I also think that he premise of looking for the optimal format for a news / analysis type of site is incorrect because it presupposes the reader to be a recipient of information, and that’s not the right mindset for someone looking to stay informed. No matter how good the channel is, if one is just looking to follow it, and have information poured into their brain so to speak, it will not work. One must actively search for information, interpret it, and deepen their understanding as an ongoing process, and that necessarily leads to different channels being useful at different times. And then diversity helps.

            Speaking about my personal experience, there have been many sites that I’ve found interesting / useful in the past, which I’ve long stopped following; and I’m sure that process will continue.

          • I understand. It works for a certain category of people. It doesn’t work for the majority. Maybe a good parallel would be: self-motivated people vs. those who are not self-motivated. When you teach, college/univ/etc, within a few days you get to see that divide in a class. Self-motivated ones thirsty for knowledge- delving deep, researching, thinking & processing … and you see the rest: they may get there, eventually, but they need, or think that they need, or have been programmed/trained to think that need, that hand-holding, or, a group dynamic as motivation or …

            It goes to psychology, sociology, and even anthropology.

            This is one of the reasons I loath being in some managerial position- no matter what the field is. I am perfectly fine, as long as I work with those self-motivated people, and I get exasperated (and go nuts) when I am constantly asked/demanded for handholding for little tiny baby steps.

            Finally, I can see here @ BFP we have that rare group: people who don’t need hand-holding, being given processed/modified/simplified information in little chunks ready to be digested. So what you state, totally applies here.

      • Sibel: what John said I pretty much agree with.
        Too much intellectual debate/discussion takes us away form the NOW. Granted , we need to know our enemy’s history. When I took on the task of studying the history of the Fed. Reserve System, it required many long hours and many worm holes appeared. Personally, If one does not know that money is based on debt and what fiat currency is, well they will have a hard time understanding why a quadrillion dollars of derivatives may take civilization down any day. I could list the other obvious key items; The situation in Ukraine could be on a precipice to oblivion,. etc ,etc,
        But let us not forget the over-arching theme of this format. Personal experience with things Revolutionary! I know I’ve been around a long time but this episode I’m getting to much deja vu—.’been there, done that. We are only human, but a certain discipline is needed to hold back from showing our knowledge and fine tuning everything. IMO. This in not the forum for that. ‘just sayin.
        And you will definitely not be “proven wrong”–not by us.

    • arealjeffersonian says:

      “take action every single day!”. I like it. I think what we’re doing here is discussing what those actions can and should be. And I for one appreciate your input, as I do that of all the others taking time and making the effort to share. So stay with us and lets all see where we can go.

  31. rachelinnys says:

    I have followed you for 2 years now and this is my first post. I would like to thank you for all your hard work, Sibel. I know it’s been a difficult journey. Here are my thoughts on if becoming a 501c3 and expanding into a major player or remaining a “virgin” was the right thing to do. Of course it was! Like the corporate/cia controlled media, the large, hulking 501c3 organizations are dinosaurs. The Red Cross for example has been smeared with scandal as other 501c3 in recent years. For not only does such a monster organization take all your time and effort to feed it with funding, it becomes open to fraudulent activities.

    We have entered a new age. The age the internet had fundamentally transformed the way we get information and the way we do business. The internet is still in its infancy. This is uncharted territory so to speak and I don’t have an answer to how to expand and grow BFP and other sites, like Corbett Report, that I would love to see become a staple in the new media today. And perhaps James Corbett was right when he mentioned he would like to see millions of independent blogs reporting on local news as the new media to get the truth out. Whatever the internet eventually evolves into it is up to us to mold that outcome and prevent people like Soros and the NWO gang from getting their China-style internet. Because the whole reason behind a China-style internet is to shut down the whistleblowers and site like yours.

    The “revolution” that so many have been waiting for is already at hand and if you don’t who is leading it…Then it’s you. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are one of the leading forces in the revolution and in seeding real change. This revolution is going to last a few generations and will not suddenly pop up over night. The same can be said with the internet of the future. There is no real business plan to follow, no instruction book on how to launch an internet based revolution that will take decades to complete. I don’t know what the new way of doing things will be but I do know the old way of doing things, like the 501c3 and having sugar daddy support is fading to the way of the dinosaurs. You are on the right path…Unfortunately, no one knows exactly how that path is laid out.

    Keep up the excellent work! And thank you for sticking with us and not giving in to the 501c3 trap.

    • Rachel, nice to meet you, and have your comment! It gets me more excited than usual, because It’s been rare to have strong articulate female voices here @ BFP. I don’t mean this with any kind of gender-based bias. For the last 13 years I have had so very few female supporters/friends/commenters … So, here it is again: thank you and welcome!

      You are absolutely right about bloated system-based NGOs. I like your example of Red Cross. In 1999, at the time of that awful earth quake, I formed a small group to collect needed medical supply (also tents, blankets, etc.), take it to Istanbul, and participate in distribution (getting it to the those who needed it: volunteer doctors on wheel, shelters, etc.). It took intense amount of work in a very frantic short period of time. But it proved doable. Many small independent pharmacies, and even some larger chain ones, gladly donated supplies. We even got the airline wave its cargo fees. When we got to Istanbul, one of the ground service providers gladly donated two busses to us, and through my father I formed a group of 6 doctors …

      Anyhow. It was very successful. However small. The reason I did that: 1- I knew that less than 50 cents of each donated dollar went to the victims/those needed due to the bloated state of organizations such as Red Cross; 2- We knew that there were these small criminal networks/groups in Turkey who took over some of the supplies (stole them) and sold it for profit- we wanted to make sure that the supplies went to where they were needed under our inspection; 3- Just around that time, Viagra (erection-inducing medicine), had began this promotion campaign in Turkey (major Turkish TV networks), and as part of that they had this interview session with Bob Dole and his wife (Former Red Cross President) holding hands, and Elizabeth Dole saying: ‘I used to work so hard, for many long hours, with Red Cross before Viagra; now, thanks to Viagra, I quit Red Cross, and spend more time with my husband. We owe it to Viagra!’ I am serious. The conclusion was … what? People who are not getting ‘it,’ go and work for these organizations?! Well, this was the woman who ran and represented Red Cross;-)

      Internet: Wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I am about to record our next episode, and I will be talking about this. This is why I stopped NSWBC to Org track, and began this website in 2008-2009.

      Revolution: It seems like we are all on the same page with your view of revolution.

      • 344thBrother says:

        The Elizabeth Dole comment.

        • I have to check and see if there is any YouTube clip of those TV commercial piece. It played for weeks in Turkey; 1999, ore YouTube.

          Do we have any Turkish commenters here? Someone in Turkey?

          You should have seen/heard that, Dave. She went, batting her eyes, while holding Bob Dole’s hand, ‘Thanks to Viagra, I no longer work hard … I now rather spend time with my husband at home …’

          They were Viagra’s spokespersons in several countries. Turkey was one of them.

  32. Here’s my idea: Don’t be a non-profit – be a for-profit business! Say what one will, Alex Jones has invented a very good model. It seems that what few compromises he’s made have been on his own terms, that is, not capitulating to a board of apparatchiks. Think of a product line or two. And sell them!

    • Mgrdichian says:

      Sibel is already doing that. BFP is for profit, even if it hasn’t shown one.

      • That is a fact, MGR. First, I started it as a small site with me. A few years back, after adding others (PBC, Corbett, Jimenez, Jamiol, etc.) as partners (paid contract producers and authors, etc.), adding our membership program and donations … it became a simple, sub S corporation. We have no boards or anything. No office. No employees other than me … Just me, our paid contractors, site fees (dedicated servers), web management fee, credit card processing fee … etc.

        And you are right again: no profit; maybe minus profit (so far). My intention was to continue this independent approach, with enough number of subscribers/supporters, expand it, be able to hire trustworthy seasoned independent investigative journalists (we need that very badly), have more participatory podcast/video shows, and have a well-managed activism forum … We haven’t gotten there; yet.

        In our coming podcast (will be up either later this evening or tomorrow morning). I will be talking about this as well.

        Anyhow. You’re correct on both statements.

        • Mgrdichian says:

          I think it’s a really good model and I’m beyond impressed. Your selflessness is more than apparent with the amount of quality product you squeeze out of every dollar. More than hoping that you grow, I hope you propagate offspring among your fans who are willing to do the same as you. Your success so far must really piss of the govt., and that, in and of itself, is worth the price of admission.

      • Oh, I forgot another frustrating expanse: even without profit and multiple employees, I still have to pay an accountant every year to figure out and file for taxes (I am terrible with those things as well. I can balance my checking account-the old fashion way-pencil and checkbook, and that’s about it;-)

    • I see what you are saying. AJ has been successful. But in many ways we are different, and I don’t think that model would work for us. He is also a talented entertainer. I’ve been told, many times by many people, why and how we should introduce this ‘entertainment’ angle to our BFP. There is nothing wrong with that, but that’s not me.

      The other thing that turns me off: the audience (not all of them, but enough of them) and the types of responses/comments I read @ his site. It makes me cringe (almost throw up). It is rare to see anything that in any way could be considered eloquent, articulate, constructive. Ugly people (inside), ugly languages, engaged in all sorts of ugly personal attacks … Yuck. If I ever see any language like that here @ BFP I’d gladly refund that person’s money, and get a virtual restraining order to keep him/her away;-)

      Nope. No way. That option has never been considered, and will never be entertained.

      Don’t take me wrong. I see your point. I understand how you’re looking at it. And I know your point has nothing to do with their type of audience and entertainment (loud, obnoxious, hyperbole, exaggeration, sometimes plain false) qualities, but with the possible approach to sustain, have resources, without selling out to those sugar daddies. I am terrible businessman (businesswoman?). I suck at marketing/promotion/advertisement. And I don’t like it when people try to sell me things. As you see, it won’t work for me … or even the majority of our commenters here.

  33. 344thBrother says:

    Well I don’t know if it helps Sibel, but I find a lot of your work quite entertaining. You’ve got a fine sense of humor and you can use sarcasm without being nasty about it. Your co-workers and guests always seem to play off of your style in neat ways and the message gets through.

    So, for what it’s worth, there’s that.

    • Maybe one day we’ll meet outside this virtual arena. What you see of me there is real, but the ‘real’ for the public setting. I love and depend on laughter, wit, good sarcasm, mischief (the good kind) … Life becomes worth living- bearable. Without that: why life, ey?

  34. Rachel, I like this comment you made: “You are on the right path…Unfortunately, no one knows exactly how that path is laid out.” And another alluding to there being no instruction manual for some of the things going on here. This reminds me of raising a family. There are no instruction manuals for being a parent either – it’s learn as you go, and it constantly changes. Perhaps we are creating a BFP family here – and we can keep dealing with issues as they come up – together. Thanks for your input! And thank you Sibel!

  35. It would be hypocritical of me to suggest some kind of team, organization, whatever you care to call it, which I personally would not be willing and ABLE to pull my weight in. In the same vein, it would be insulting to Sibel and everyone here to suggest something which is tailored to keep me in my little comfort zone. Sibel embodies the principle that worthwhile efforts require sacrifice and risk.

    So on that basis, I’ll make this suggestion which is for sure out of my comfort zone, and probably is for most others here. But I will commit to it, as I suggest it.

    A network of people to serve as a support mechanism for WBs. These people have paid their own entrance fee to cover background vetting (not cheap!) and seed money Sibel requires to set up shop. The “seed fee” needed per person would of course depend on how many people take the plunge. The leadership and decision making mechanism is to be the simplest imaginable: Sibel, period. Final word on everyone and everything.

    The people who’ve paid their way in and continue to stay current on dues, would be given opportunities to support WB individuals and families in whatever way is needed or appropriate. The possible contingencies are something which Sibel could anticipate much better than I can. All aid provided would be done voluntarily on a case-by-case basis as requested by Sibel. There will be (I hope) visibility within the group of who is coming through when asked.

    Whether this would be a revival of NSWBC or some souped-up wing of BFP, or something else, is up to Sibel. Our part is to commit to the general concept if Sibel wants to pursue it. Of the top of my head I would suggest anyone who commits needs to anticipate the going-in fee would be no less than $5,000, and annual dues about that much again, depending of course on how many share the expenses. Plus other voluntary requests for funds or other forms of aid at unpredictable times to cover contingencies.

    For me this imposes moderate financial strain, and possibly severe risk to my job and retirement prospects. So be it.

    For Action-not-just-talk, this is one way to get real. The Real Thing is not cheap or easy.

    • I like the fact that some are beginning to look at ‘possible’ action items. Possible ways to have people’s movement owned and operated by the people-free of all the system and its megas.

      The session I just finished recording deals with this, and suggests one possible way. Let’s see what everyone else come up with; let’s see which one of possible options garner support and commitment … We will find a way. Together.

  36. Thanks for another great one, Sibel. I think these stories are extremely important, as they help illuminate how the world of activist organizations really works. The more we can look at the prominent people and organizations who appear to be on “our side” and think critically in terms of what they DON’T cover, and who backs them, the better we are able to direct our attention to what does matter.

    Also: once again, love the music.

    Also, I heartily recommend Doug Valentine’s book on the Phoenix Program. I recently bought it after hearing him interviewed by…I guess it was Guillermo, anyway, yes it’s available and yes it’s an essential read. If it has a flaw it’s in the almost overwhelming quantity of detail — a good flaw to have. Doug, good to see you here and thanks for your excellent work.

  37. This is wonderful stuff Sibel. I have often found myself dismayed by how much the people around me trust sources like Amy Goodman, Alternet…not realizing how co-opted they are.

    It doesn’t take money to tell the truth. Until the internet is shut down we can pass the word on to receptive friends (I’ve given up trying to convert people…the power of cognitive dissonance is stronger than I would have believed) thereby increasing the level of enlightenment we seek.

    If you or any readers want a clear window into the actual operation of the MIC check out Nick Turse’s book Kill Anything That Moves.

  38. I’m gonna sound the like “cooperative” bot. All I do is push coops and unions. Lol, the *good* NGOs! Legal discovery is costly. During my divorce, producing financial statements was an arduous process!

    The plan here is to empower paralegals and create an “open source” law school. The cooperative law firm would be a contracting agency that would anchor down the community. Cooperative firms would offer heavily discounted rates for commonly needed services.

    Each region would have its own cooperative legal network, and a pool of paralegals in one union. Paralegals would share legal tips to the public as part of their law school.

    More to follow…. (u can bug me on 🙂

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