Probable Cause with Sibel Edmonds- Coups, False Flag Operations, Hearts & Minds

Welcome to our twelfth episode of Probable Cause. Today, with this episode, we are starting a new subtopic that is directly related to our macro subject. We are going to talk about strategic operations and synthetic events as catalysts to bring about forceful and rapid changes. We are going to talk about coups: Coup as in coups d'etat; coups d'etat as in "stroke of the state,” and defined as a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics.
For this new subtopic we are going to go back 35 years and look at the 1980 Military Coup in Turkey, brought about by the US-NATO-Turkish Military trio, and the synthetic terror events that preceded it.

As before I am going to use some first-hand and personal experiences and examples to illustrate how the strategy of tension and false flag operations are utilized for a major overt action; for a major stroke of the deep state- as in a coup. After that we are going to examine the parallels between the staged pre-coup events and the coup in Turkey and the 9/11 terror event and post-9/11 coup in the United States. And as always our next episode will be based on your reaction, critique, responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

*To listen to our previous episodes on this topic click here

Listen to the full episode here:


Show Notes

Show Tune: “Kardesin Duymaz” by Zulfu Livaneli (YouTube)

Translated Lyrics for the Show Tune

Twenty Years Since the Military Coup in Turkey

1980 Turkish coup d'état

Turkey's "Deep-State" and the Ergenekon Conundrum

The Court Case Against Generals Behind Turkey’s 1980 Coup

Maraş Massacre

Taksim Square Massacre

Beyazıt Massacre

Bahçelievler Massacre

Operation Gladio: Summary

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  1. To all those have gone before.
    I have no real questions as you know. 911 was a coup. Absofknlutely. Was the gate we were all pushed through. Manufactured yes yes yes and yes again !! And goddamn them . The scariest part is knowing how the population can know murder is being done to their own, and still, bow, bow to the uniform, to the soldier fresh in from the kill…thank you for saving us……
    how to combat crime at this extreme level. My question every day.
    Very moving .

  2. CuChulainn says:

    ah yes, Paul Henze, NSC cowboy in the Carter years, CIA station chief Ankara, Tbilisi, Addis–had he stayed on in AA Mengistu would never have been, he said. connoisseur of fine carpets, habitué of the spice bazaar, lover of Turkish culture. sitting across the table, with sincerity, he had a scoop for me–his book demonstrated, agca a soviet agent. Graham Fuller’s mentor. what Claridge did for Italy… Pinochet, Evren. much for a company man to be proud of.
    “Don’t let them see us! Don’t tell them what we are doing!”
    Are these the words of the great nations, the all powerful boards
    and syndicates of the earth?
    These are the words of liars, and cowards, and collaborators,
    and traitors, collaborators with insect people,
    with any people anywhere who offer you a body forever,
    to shit forever.
    For this you have sold your sons forever,
    the ground from unborn feet forever!
    Traitors to all souls everywhere!
    You on the board, who want others to pay for you,
    with your deals to take what is not yours,
    and leave your human animals to be eaten alive by the crab people,
    to go down the drain in green shit and piss.

    • Thanks for the link CuChulainn… I enjoyed Bukowski’s poem and rant very much. He was a rare voice.

    • tonywicher says:

      Thanks, CuCh, I LOVE William Burroughs! Here’s another passage for you:
      The basic nova mechanism is very simple: Always create as many insoluble conflicts as possible and always aggravate existing conflicts–This is done by dumping life forms with incompatible conditions of existence on the same planet–There is of course nothing “wrong” about any given life form since “wrong” only has reference to conflicts with other life forms–The point is these forms should not be on the same planet–Their conditions of life are basically incompatible in present time form and it is precisely the work of the Nova Mob to see that they remain in present time form, to create and aggravate the conflicts that lead to the explosion of a planet that is to nova–At any given time recording devices fix the nature of absolute need and dictate the use of total weapons–Like this: Take two opposed pressure groups–Record the most violent and threatening statements of group one with regard to group two and play back to group two–Record the answer and take to back to group one–Back and forth between opposed pressure groups–This process is known as “feed back”–You can see it operating in any bar room quarrel–In any quarrel for that matter–Manipulated on a global scale feeds back nuclear war and nova–These conflicts are deliberately created and aggravated by nova criminals–The Nova Mob: “Sammy The Butcher,” “Green Tony,” “Iron Claws,” “The Brown Artist,” “Jacky Blue Note,” “Limestone John,” “Izzy The Push,” “Hamburger Mary,” “Paddy The Sting,” “The Subliminal Kid,” “The Blue Dinosaur,” and “Mr. & Mrs. D,” also known as “Mr. Bradly Mr. Martin” also known as “The Ugly Spirit” thought to be the leader of the mob–The Nova Mob–In all my experience as a police officer I have never seen such total fear and degradation on any planet–We intend to arrest these criminals and turn them over to the biological department for the indicated alterations–

  3. Wally Sarkeesian says:

    Thanks Sibel, I have a question and a little comment, who you thing infiltrating who? the Turks infiltrating CIA or CIA infiltrating the Turks, from my research the Turkish Ruling Elites have always used mercenary through out their invasion and occupation of three continent (Ottoman empire) first they infiltrated the Islamic empire and after that every super power, Turkish Ruling Elites infiltration of USA started with so called (Cuban missile crisis) possibly before CIA exist I am not quit sure of the date. it was Turkish Ruling Elites whom convince and scare hell of US to put missile in Turkey that led USSR to put missile in Cuba. therefore Turkey have successfully used communism as tool and manipulated US just they did with Islamic empire for 400 years. therefore did Gulen recruited CIA or CIA recruited Gulen that is the question?
    Thank you for your hard work.

    • Wally,

      Based on my experience/knowledge, the penetration you are referring to mainly applies to US Congress. In that regard, ‘Yes.’ This was the core of Dennis Hastert and about a dozen of other elected officials who were pocketed (big time) by the Turkish Deep State. And by Turkish Deep State we are talking not government players: the shady groups consisted of mafia criminal ultra fascist elements formation. Did they have operatives in high offices within Turkish gov? Of course. Yes.

      But as far as geostrategic chess game and operation Gladio is concerned: you are looking at the Western Deep State/powers’ interests implemented by its NATO-CIA arms. With them, it is the other way around: they utilize their well-trained Islamic figures, imams, mullahs such as Gulen, West-Directed leaders such as Bin Laden, Zawahiri … for their operations.

      • Wally Sarkeesian says:

        Thanks Sibel, it is hard to believe that any deep state could operate without Governments?
        What would you consider American Turkish council organization since they were directly involved with your case?

        • “it is hard to believe that any deep state could operate without Governments?” You are absolutely correct. As we have said repeatedly the deep state, and their interests/power/money is the driving force behind the gov. government is not the last top step on the ladder. But it is extremely important to separate what we mean by the Turkish Deep State, and the macro, mother of all deep states: the ultimate US-Western powers.

          We have to stick with our topics. For this episode we are specifically discussing False flag ops & 1980 coup in Turkey coup, and, 9/11 and the coups in USA.

          • Wally Sarkeesian says:

            Understand, thanks again…

          • Any time, Wally. We will be covering this specific area, including Gulen, ATAA, ATC … the forceful underground shady lobbies with amazing reach. I am sure you are familiar with my case, and how every attempt to expose was blocked.

    • Now Turkey is small potatoes compared to the game Israel is playing.

  4. Wally Sarkeesian says:

    sorry for typo it should be think not thing

  5. donilo252525 says:

    A first feeling upon listening…

    omnipotence don’t
    matter, we live soul to soul,
    and then we scatter.

  6. SIBEL” Whew!! I am a bit overwhelmed by your talk today! I could feel that emotion in your voice.
    It brings into question several things: The Deep State, The ancient use of False Flag Ops, Mind control as per the Nazi, Goebbels(paraphrasing: the masses will believe any lie as long as the powers repeat it enough). Hence the burning of the Reischtag, etc. It also leaves me with this uneasy feeling I’ve had for many years now–Just how civilized are humans or I could say just how pathological can they/we get?
    Of course 9/11 was a project of what we call the Deep State. It was an in-your-face-you dumb-ass humans!
    Triggered fear, awe, and my favorite, Cognitive Dissonance –Goodness! Our Govt. would never do such a thing! Therefore those buildings are not being demolished by the slickest users of thermite. It’s the Terrorists! What follows takes to long to go into ,of course. Let’s just say we are all in post 9/11 deep shit now and most have no clue.
    An interesting thing to ponder: All those killers in Turkey doing “wet work(murder)” were employees!! They need not be all lunatics–they will tell you today, “I was just doing my job” That goes for 9/11–many psychopaths, for sure, but a whole lot of people paid handsomely “just doing what they were told to do.”

    Regarding the term DEEP STATE, check out the following quotes by a former congressional staffer from an essay, “The Anatomy of the Deep State”, Mike Lofgren 2-21-14………..”The term ‘Deep State’ was coined in TURKEY and is said to be a system composed of high-level elements within the Intelligence services, military, security ,judicial, and organized crime,” He goes on to summarize the USA Deep State which refers to …”a hybrid association of elements of govt. and parts of top level finance and (military) industry that is effectively able to ‘govern’ the USA without references to the consent of the governed as expressed through political processes.” I absolutely agree with him. We are not governed by politicians whatsoever. It is grand theater!

    • CuChulainn says:

      re. cognitive dissonance, it is a mistake, i think, to describe it as the enemy, as Sibel does. it is a normal response of the organism to information that it cannot process without loss of equanimity.

      the problem is rather the limited capacity for equanimity; the explanation for this, as is taught in the vipassana retreats (highly recommended– is that equanimity and awareness are like two wings of a bird, two wheels of an oxcart, they can only function insofar as they are symmetrical. if there is limited awareness, so too will equanimity be limited, and vice versa.

      capitalism is based on the proliferation of desires, of cravings and aversions, and promotes the identification of oneself with one’s appetites and the mental noise that passes for thought; this system functions by circumscribing not only the awareness of the population (“don’t let them see what we are doing!”) but also, and necessarily, its equanimity.

      the engines of capitalism correlate to the Three Poisons in Buddhism–Greed (consumption, the deliberate multiplication of cravings), Hatred (war & predation), and Ignorance (false consciousness). it is well understood by TPTB that a population bathed in these poisons is not constituted to face reality.

      • Maybe ‘qualification’ is necessary for this. There is ‘ignorance’ and then there is ‘Willful ignorance.’ There is ‘amnesia’ and then there is ‘Self-induced Amnesia.’ There are consciously chosen positions vs. those occurring at subconscious level.

        I do not subscribe to the notion that ‘you never blame the victim.’ Because ‘never’ doesn’t apply to some cases. This is one of the top reasons we based our approach (to the topic) on ‘individual level.’ I know some of you may totally disagree with me, but my position is: the blame can be, and should be, equally assigned to the ‘victims’ in some cases. Maybe harsh. For me it is realism (as perceived, as observed through my own biased lenses and experience baggage).

      • CHUCHULAIN; Cognitive dissonance is a 100% function of certain neurological networks that function at a subconscious level. I do not want to go into a complicated explanation of certain brain areas at work here. Let’s just make it simple and say that cognitive(meaning “to know”) and dissonance(meaning incongruity,, discord, a state on non-resolution) sets up a kind of sudden conflict and tension whereby the brain needs relief. It then falls back on its own comfortable narrative and moves to the next event. Ultimately self-awareness , in some cases, can go back, cooly and reflect, meditate, etc. and analyze what the hell happened and face the FACT-not the perception.
        I respect your relationship with vipassana, the dharma, and samsara. I have spent years in those areas, but I personally could not “use” those Buddhist terms in this type of format. It’s a bit too guru-influenced for me. This is rather a personal remark to you, specifically, but you may see where I’m coming from.

        • steven hobbs says:

          Hey Chu,
          Thank you for commenting on vipassana, cognitive dissonance, neurological networks, and subconscious, in addition to links previously provided. May I jocularly suggest an epistemic investigation toward postulates presented in those directions? Maybe for the file: epistemology, or the reason I/you claim to know what is what we believe to be true.
          Really, Chu, let it flow… we may, or may not, be interested. Nevertheless, some may play. Tenzen Young, distinguishes a third wheel to the cart! Sensory clarity. Sensory clarity aids equanimity through expression and articulation of lived experience, i.e. naming, helps investigation. It works well for me. A little story:
          Metaphor: by serendipity you walk upon old woman deep in the forest jungle in the dark and dead of night, no moonlight, no stars. A storm is rapidly approaching. You and this kind blind woman are in the dark. She holds a dark lantern. Together you light a lantern. She lifts it. With sensory clarity, and descriptive presence, you together sense the terrain. Together you decipher a path. Emerging from this unified praxis, equanimity aids reasoning.

          • steven hobbs says:

            To clarify the three wheels of the cart: Awareness or Attention; Sensory Clarity, Equanimity.

      • I was stuffing my face with fast food in 2001 and after watching CNN from the time after the hits on whatever exploded INSIDE the towers and their demolition to about 2 am looking for reasonable explanation of what went on. None of it happened and I knew instinctively this was a big show and an orchestrated coup. Probably why as a 18 year old from french canada (we get american CNN on basic cable and many other english canadian and american channels because being billingual is more and more an obligation here as we are purposefully slowly erased by the Queen, but that’s another story), I watched the 2000 elections debacle for about 48 hours without sleep because something deep inside was telling me (probably thanks to my real education, punk and hardcore punk music lyrics of certain anarchist bands) that if that guy Bush and Cheney “won” (he didn’t win but was sElected, the first time it was such in your face selection instead of election and the one that made all others suspicious, the others before, I think were genuine, kind of (not enough because of gerrymandering). And the whole thing about how Gore was basically illegally tossed out (warning, I do not consider the Gore/LIEberman ticket to be good people with sound policies, but they would have resisted the deep state option of 911…I think….Lieberman wasn’t as crazy in his public comments as he became when he was ejected from the Democratic Party in 2006 and the rest of his miserable existence as an independent senator. They would have done something that is more insidious and looks beneficial to us to get to the same surveillance state we are in now, without the trauma 9/11 has inflicted on so many people (NY is 5 hours south from me, there was a Quebec/New York technology event going on during the week of 9/11, some clsoe up pics of a guy who went and ran (and was killed by the first falling tower) had his camera’s pictures salvaged and there was a huge Quebec-New York (we share borders and are major customers of our huge hydroelectricity production (which is not finished still, thankfully nobody lives where the current massive river that is turned into the largest hydro complex right now in the world on La Romaine river) way up north in the province. Apparently the Naudet brothers, who lived in Quebec (a lot of France nationality people live in Montreal due to the majority of french speaking people there….although always going slimmer…which is a plan of slow ethnic cleansing imo but that’s another subject. Just saying I think this Quebec-NY Tech Summit, right after the America’s Summit with all 3 PM’s and Presidents in April 2001 in Quebec City’s Frontenac Castle (only european old style castle built in North America) which attracted an enormous amount of protestors, too bad many didn’t know what they were protesting, but many did know, and I’m sure that the plans of 911 were discussed in that 3 day summit.

        Anyways, this trauma they caused even for me ( I can’t imagine for actual new yorkers) on my TV (with its fake plane and its nose coming out of the tower lol) ruined much of my adult life, first going into depression, quitting college and going back again multiple times, drug abuse (i used drugs before, but only marijuana, small doses of LSD and magic mushrooms, nothing that will steal all your money, life, friends and health), I speak of strong hard drugs, strangely the kind that are prescribed for pain and anxiety and give you physical distress when you quit using them…almost too bad for them that their taking back of the opium trade never had heroin reach my town of 250 000 in northern canada….I guess there is some but its from people who travel to Montreal and come back, but pharmaceuticals as strong as heroin, which many need opium to be manufactured, are really happy about all those poppies being back on the market more than ever after the Taliban signed their death warrant (making opium illegal).

        Rambled a little but I’m not in my best mood and needed to “talk”.

  7. Great presentation, Sibel. So far I can see at least three “false flag” indicator patterns: 1) Top elites never killed, 2) The crazy left – “communists” – allegedly attack moderate labor/left and, 3) complete innocents are attacked making us all feel vulnerable. Taken together it supports the ideology of fascism, the merger of state and corporate interests.

  8. arealjeffersonian says:

    Sibel, you never cease to amaze us. What an incredible range of life’s real experiences. And what little I know – thanks for all you’re giving us.

    Your presentation is a lesson in history in itself, and the link you provided to the Maras Massacre is almost too unbearable to read – I will carry it with me for days. What horror humans bestow on humans.


  9. .. been thinking about the differences. They were both overthrows for sure. False flag.. But apart from 93 WTC, gladio never escalated home-grown terror the way you described Turkey. Attacks on Cole and Embassy’s were some kind of build up..but all out of country., the threat, external. And since 911 even Boston and Sandy Hook are – must be considered staged events so ‘they’ don’t even need to cause a great deal of real blood anymore; just have to pretend..there’s a whole industry of professionals going along with this shit…thats a very different technique..the people of Turkey and the people of the united states of amercia [sic] are very different animals. there were no 500,000 disappeared after 911 to facilitate control. Not needed. Everybody bought it . Some doubtless killed afterwards, sure, but….overall, deception so complete and terrible, the population so tuned to being ‘ told’ – the program so effective it didn’t need overt military junta control. COG maybe . But that’s secret…..In mainstream, BUSH just said “go shopping”. And they did. Family activists demanded a commission. They produced a commission. The commission played star spangled banner. The nation saluted. They produced ‘building assessment reports’ upending the physics of Newton and introducing agnotologies bought by an entire national building industry, with no regrets, no peer review, no cross examination…Media taught the population they were so clever, had 911 been a conspiracy, they would know by now and they don’t so it wasn’t”.
    then your story made me think of Madelene Albrecht. Her monstrous statement the death of 500,000 Iraqi children were worth the neocon ‘price’ of sanction…. there’s a line out of poetry describes what part of fascist that statement actually is, but I can’t think of it right now.

    • CuChulainn says:

      yes remo, the differences are telling–the wonderful dynamism of Turkey reflects the persistence of many pre-capitalist elements in a society where hospitality and family values, much spoken of in the USA, actually exist; where differentiations, sexual and otherwise, are still appreciated; the only country i know where people toast not “to your health” but “to your honor.” all the more so in the ’70s (also in italy, argentina, chile, all of them lively and vital societies compared to the us) than now–so more brutal methods were necessary to create overwhelming fear.
      the insipid, hysterical & flaccid tone of US society today, its essential passivity and abstraction, lack of critical thinking and the desire to take appearances at face value (as Debord describes the Society of the Spectacle, our Hollywood reality) seem to make the USA population much easier to manipulate

      • “the wonderful dynamism of Turkey reflects the persistence of many pre-capitalist elements in a society where hospitality and family values, much spoken of in the USA, actually exist; where differentiations, sexual and otherwise, are still appreciated; the only country i know where people toast not “to your health” but “to your honor.””- 100% accurate. Very true. The difference is much bigger when you look at places outside mega cities (Western cities of Istanbul/Izmir).

        “where differentiations, sexual and otherwise, are still appreciated”- I am so glad to hear someone bringing up this topic. Kudos. An entire topic for several episodes. During my years of academic journey here in the States, I only had one professor daring to delve into this topic/area. 50% of the students walked out of his class, dropped the course, and a few filed complaints. George Washington University had put together a panel trying to kick him out of the institutions … I’d say, he was one of top 3 teachers/professors I have had in my life. The guy got your critical thinking juice going like no other academic I’ve ever seen!

        Anyhow. I have to go, but I’ll be back. I just love this community!!!!!!!

        • CuChulainn says:

          i was teaching at gwu when you studied there, wonder who the prof was you mention. gw had a vibrant turkish student population.
          differentiation, and capitalism’s tendency to erase all distinctions, is a situationist theme–Francis Cousin’s first book is “critique of the society of indistinction.” one of the most salient is food–Turks eat real food. if you can get a population to eat garbage you can get them to believe nonsense.

          • What a small world! I got my two bachelor degrees there: Criminal Psychology & Criminal Justice. 1998-2000

            That professor: Dr. Joseph Tropea. He worked for years as a Parole officer/supervisor (I think somewhere in Mid West) …

            Also, I took enough Pol Sci classes to get my third degree. During my years there the God was ‘Francis Ford Fukiyama- Neocon jerk with his ‘End-ism’ theory; one of PNAC signatories. Later, when I went to George Mason for my Master’s, he was kicked to GMU, right in my backyard. I have so much disdain for that creep …

          • CuChulainn says:

            did you know Efes Yazici?
            GWU a “company” affiliated uni, GMU too i guess

          • Look at the amount of $$$$$s in gov grants they both get? Look at the number contracts they both have? Of course.

            Of the two: GWU much worse. I was approached at least half a dozen of times by 3 ‘connected’ professors trying to recruit me for CIA/State Dep positions. Think about it: I had there passports (Iran, Turkey, US), 4 languages, and extensive contacts/ties. BUT I also had my strong position/view when it came to the agency. The people directly responsible for/participants in my dad’s torture. In early 1960s my younger uncle (father side) got one of the top scholarships/grants for foreign students for his master’s/PHD in Alabama University. He joined a certain ‘black activist’ groups while in Alabama, and in no time they revoke his scholarship/student visa, and extradited him (together with his file sent directly to Shah’s Savak pertaining to his communist ties and civil right activism …)…

            Of the two, GWU vs GMU, I enjoyed/liked GMU. GMU had more professors who held daytime jobs (came with life/work experience rather than pure academic blindness). Also GMU had so many hard-working students (US & foreign) who worked full-time and attended school. GWU was filled with spoiled brats from ultra rich families who spent much time on parties, drugs, sexual experimentations … Many of them Monosyllabic creatures, ‘like… so cool that like you say something like that, dude!’, with zero interest in subjects and zero critical thinking …

            Other than Tropea as one of the best professors I’ve ever had, the entire experience was ‘blah.’

            Anyhow. What area did you teach at GWU?

          • CuChulainn says:

            Steve Trachtenberg used to boast about the business aspects, large real estate operation & “we do a little teaching on the side.” in fact gwu had started out as a night school operation, then, like BU and NYU, took on airs and became a high-tuition real estate/branded uni, w. neocon connections. i was in classics (pure academic blindness).

          • No offense intended, CuChulainn. In fact, it would be wrong to strictly categorize and place people in tagged buckets. Wrong for me.

            You are right: it is a business. Just like Prison Industry, it has become a ‘business.’

    • Remo, these points are interesting and seem accurate to me.

      And as CuChulainn adds, ‘the wonderful dynamism of Turkey reflects the persistence of many pre-capitalist elements in a society where hospitality and family values […] actually exist’.

      I think CuChulainn’s point is accurate also and I can personally attest to the rich social fabric and hospitality still present in Turkey. I’m reminded now too of the people of Peru and Nicaragua, some of whom I had the pleasure of meeting last year. Again, families and family networks are still intact in these countries compared with Australia and the west. They have not yet been annihilated.

      I suspect that as Ron suggests, the deep state will use whatever means necessary and appropriate to a given country, people or situation in order to reap from it what they will.

    • You should listen to the song Albright Monument, Baghdad by Propagandhi (released in jan 2001 so no 911 angles yet, just what the Clinton admin did to Iraq, genocide), just the lyrics pump me up with rage:
      Wadia’s best friend’s youngest sister was denied a proper burial
      because for two days they couldn’t douse the flames
      the allied planes had showered on her tiny body.
      And all the paper trails that lead to all the roads
      that lead to all these Basras make it seem like we’re all just “collateral damage”
      waiting to be happened in some unforeseen Pentagon budget-drill.
      Today’s Ba’ath regime is just the Red Scare of yesteryear.
      And I drink myself to sleep because I’m losing faith
      that any of us will ever amount to anything more
      than reluctant human subsidies,
      the moving parts in a death-machine,
      protesting their complicity,
      but waiting for somebody else to throw their body on the churning gears.
      I drink myself to sleep because
      I’m losing faith that we,
      here in the Cradle of Affluence can cease this sickening drive
      for individual strength through state-powers’ swinging fists
      or that we’ll ever look back and laugh at the irony that is:
      an atomic murderer is enshrined in Independence,
      USA while 8000 miles from here (back in the Cradle of Democracy)
      it’s another banner year for a cottage industry
      a ritual at the corner of George and Constantine
      as foundries scramble to recast his decapitated monument.

  10. Dear Sibel,
    Best one yet !! Based on personally lived (and felt on this side) experiences, not mere theories.
    Please consider making this podcast available to the general public. A real teaser to join BFP !!
    It is such a clear expose’ of how false flags work and so comparable to 9/11 that I think it will wake some people up.

    • Merhaba Chuck:-)

      Thank you for your encouraging words. I think we started building up towards this subtopic: with slow but sure steps. My main objective is to put all, or as many as we cab, building blocks in one place, and examine it from multiple angles.

      In the past, we tried very hard to make everything on this site open to all. Our Eye-opener series was one of the best information channels I’d ever seen (anywhere!). It just didn’t work. Another obstacle: with our current software we are unable to allow access without keeping our forum open only to members. Meaning: we will be getting hundreds of destructive, awful, shallow, nefarious comments posted if we were to open the episode. I encourage you to check out some of the forums out there (YouTube, podcast sites) that cover this topic, and read the comments section- simply awful and nauseating.
      I love the community we have here. I love the dynamics I see. So I want to keep it as is. Of course, our goal is to expand, but let’s do it steadily and surely; quality over quantity.

      Hope this explanation makes sense to you.

      • Dear Sibel,
        I don’t mean to pressure or burden you with more work but for me this podcast was so
        convincing that I can’t imagine it not having a similar effect on others, that’s why I wish you would make it public.
        I see that other contributors to BFP offer teasers of their podcasts.
        Are these teasers also open to “general public” comments?
        Isn’t it possible to just put the podcast on you tube and close the comment section?
        Sorry, I don’t understand all the technical difficulties it’s just that this last podcast really “got to me”
        and I so wish others could hear it. I’m tempted to share my password with others to let them hear it.

        • I’m glad you liked the podcast, Chuck.

          Our foundation and core principles here @ BFP differs from other website/forum and multimedia operators. I know some operate based on ‘crowd funding,’ others operate based on ‘open platform,’ etc. That’s good. They have selected, and are implementing, what they believe and the way they are comfortable with.

          In the past 4 years or so, we have regrettably excluded 4 or 5 members for violating our rights, our members’ rights, by passing PW/UN to others. That one is fairly easy to pinpoint, because our membership software issues nightly reports with all statistics, including how many times a certain UN has been logged in, downloaded, etc. It is self-defeating proposal, because with issues like that there will never be a BFP.

          Currently we are pursuing legal action against one source from Denmark who has been passing along the downloaded files from BFP. Again, we are doing it based on principle. Protecting our rights. And doing so after issuing two warning letters to the site owner. Thankfully, their ISP has been very nice and cooperative.

          Why I’m saying this? Because this is a site for the irate minority. There are millions of sites out there. There are thousands of sites/programs and resources (some of them very good) on 9/11 out there. We are our own small niche with a very-well-defined parameters. And we want to keep it this way.

          Again, thank you for all your support. You’ve been with us for a long time, and it is you and other members who have made this site, this source, possible.

        • Oh, one more thing, you are not pressuring or burdening me. I understand where you’re coming from, and the reasoning. And you are doing it frankly; sincerely. So, no; you are not burdening me, Chuck.

        • arealjeffersonian says:

          ” I’m tempted to share my password with others to let them hear it” – very bad idea. We need to support Sibel and BFP, not undercut her. I understand your desire to have as many as possible listen to this podcast and all the others that Sibel has and hopefully will continue to provide, but we need to do that by convincing others to join BFP, therefore helping Sibel secure the revenue she needs to continue and build.

          So please, no, no giving “freebies”.

          • Jeffersonian, currently, about 20% of our members have complementary accounts/access. I know some of them, and due to various life situations they currently cannot afford subscription. They have been supporting BFP in many other ways, and I know who, and what kind of people/activists they are. So, we do give access to ‘select’ people. We also have dozens of members who have been generous contributing more than their share. So in a way they are sponsoring others who ‘cannot.’

            Anyhow, the system, our system here @ BFP, has been working good, and I’d say smoothly.

            Thank you for being so supportive (and protective;-) of BFP!

          • Mgrdichian says:

            I’ve been tempted to give out my UN/PW too, but have refrained. Have you ever thought of occasionally offering a “bundle” or “group package?” Maybe 3 subscriptions for a special price? That way if it became problematic you could ID the source instantly. Some of us are merely activists and not intellectuals and “our” minds are always spinning over ways to grow the cause. Being a “minority” is cool, but winning is better.

          • Mgrdichian,

            That’s a possibility. How about providing that special offer every quarter, for two weeks, during our ‘bring a member’ campaign? We can say, for two-week period you can sign up for XYZ amount … Yes? No?

          • Mgrdichian says:

            Sure, every quarter or twice a year, with special attention to the holiday season. And/or you could attach it to everyone’s renewal date. For example you could set up an automated reminder and offer two weeks before our renewal date with the opportunity to add gift subscriptions at a reduced rate. The configurations are numerous. YOU need to decide which is least complicated to manage. Consistency is important. A lot of people are on and off this site so it may take a while to catch on. IMO it’s kinda a low-risk venture and you really only stand to gain.

      • Yes, yes, Sibel…indeed…please keep it this way!!. Otherwise chaos and Anarchy(thats a friendly poke at James C.) will smear us into oblivion.

        • Ron,

          Chaos and anarchy: most definitely not me; not here, not ever:-)

          • steven hobbs says:


            When you write, “Chaos and anarchy…” as it is ad nauseaum in lame stream press, these two are conflated in the mind to mean the same thing. As some what of an anarchists myself, I find it insulting. Your comment was minor and off the cuff comment possibly not intended as open for serious examination or intended to offend. Because it matters to me, and because it is important to remain respectfully incisive here with BFP, I point this out. This is similar to your previous comments about “the Far-Left” which was conflated with “the Left.” These two are also separate things. You may in fact know these distinctions, but you are not speaking as if you do. Thank you.

  11. Assuming 9/11 was a false flag, I am wondering how it would have played out had Gore been elected President in 2000. Would 9/11 have strengthened Gore’s grip on power or weakened it? My guess is that 911 would not have inspired the ‘rally around the Prez’ effect in the same way as it did with Bush in office ( since the first WTC attack, the Embassy bombings and the USS Cole attack had occurred under Clinton and Gore and they would have no one else to blame for ‘intelligence failures’.)

    • Mike, My two cents? It would have been the same reaction; at least the initial reaction: uniting against a greater threat.

      In our podcast episode on the 1979 Revolution in Iran, I briefly discussed the role of Iraq-Iran war in survival and furtherance of the new regime. People’s immediate psychological/emotional reaction was: as bad as this new regime is, we must put aside our dissent/differences, and unite against this Outside Enemy (Saddam/Iraq) that is invading our nation.

      Remember how people, congress … everyone advocated united and bipartisan collectiveness in our fight against terror? How all representatives, Red and blue, held hands, and happily passed every single new law (PATRIOT ACT, etc.) without even reading the draft proposals/legislations? They would have done exactly the same thing with Gore or anyone else in office; red or blue.

      But then again, I said ‘initial reaction.’ Because you are right, most likely, maybe after the initial period (during the shock stage & smooch smooch united phase), we would have gotten those ‘criticism’ and the ‘blame game.’

      • Mike Mejia says:

        “Red and blue, held hands, and happily passed every single new law (PATRIOT ACT, etc.) without even reading the draft proposals/legislations. They would have done exactly the same thing with Gore or anyone else in office; red or blue.”

        I guess I must agree with you on that point, especially if Gore would hypothetically have done everything the Neocons and Police Staters wanted. Instead of undermining him, the Perle, Feiths and Bill Kristal’s of the world would be singing President Gore’s praises once Gore announced the decision to invade Iraq.

        Anyway, that was a great show and a lot of food for thought!

        I’d like to think

      • 344thBrother says:

        @Mike RE: Gore:

        Remember when Gore had a golden opportunity to demand a recount because there were 12 votes that supposedly got Bush in there? Gore was the one voice who was in a position to push that issue, but he didn’t. Nuph said on that.

        Same thing with Ron Paul, who I supported both times he ran. When he had golden opportunities to demand investigation into the shenanigans with the primary voting (obvious) he did nothing. So, again, even though I respect the man for a lot of what he does and says and for his constitutional voting record, I lost respect for him on that. Big time.

        Even if either of them wanted to do something about the voting scam, I suspect that they were “Advised” by the powers to shut up, sit down and get in line. Or else. (Theory)

        Anyone who steps out of line with enough followers risks being JFK’d. Or “Suicided”.

        My 2 cents.

        • CuChulainn says:

          ashamed to say that in 2000 i was hoping for a bush victory, if only because of clinton’s bombing of yugoslavia. at the time i was in touch with a history prof at AU who had been something of a mentor to perle & co.; we were on friendly terms in part because of his position on yugoslavia, unusual for a major neocon. on election night 2000 i spoke with him apprehensively about the outcome and he said, “don’t worry, we have this wrapped up for bush.”

        • Dave,

          “Same thing with Ron Paul, who I supported both times he ran. When he had golden opportunities to demand investigation into the shenanigans with the primary voting (obvious) he did nothing. So, again, even though I respect the man for a lot of what he does and says and for his constitutional voting record, I lost respect for him on that. Big time.” – You and I seem to share the same experience on this one as well. My awakening came with Bruce Fein joining Paul’s team. I was the only person (That I know of) who tackled the case with my series on ‘Bruce Fein’ taking over Paul’s platform. And you are right: Ron Paul’s record on ‘decency’ has been stellar. I don’t care if people agree with all his view points or not, but he is one of very few (of not the only one) who had all those years in congress without a single shred of corruption or self-interest. He is the only I knew who had always declined foreign junkets: calling it as is ‘bribery.’ And he was the only elected official who stood up in congress, during that early period when everyone there was rallying for ‘police state,’ and called PATRIOT ACT/DHS/TSA as ‘Police State’ tactics being put in place by using 9/11 fear mongering …

          On a side note: How incredibly different is his son, Rand Paul?! If I could, I’d run a DNA test to see of they are really connected!

      • Sibel,

        About the Iraq/Iran war (Iraq should be put first, as it was the aggressor, of course nobody but russians I encountered online type it as Iraq/Iran war). Are you aware that the principal event where Saddam “gassed his own people” in Iraqi Kurdistan…well, it was Iran who used chemical weapons on the Kurds. It was said often back then to counter the Saddam did everything evil on earth people in the interim period of 9-11-2001 and 23-3-2003. Not that it was to make Iran look evil, it was just that in the end both countries used chemical warfare, it must have been hell on earth in the waning years of that war and I understand Iran for replying to multiple chemical attacks with a single one (or maybe others I don’t know of). Or do you reject this totally and it was Saddam who gassed Kurds, in all occasions.

  12. Sibel raises an interesting question, was 9/11 a coup? I find it interesting because of the two common uses of the word ‘coup’. Was it ‘a brilliantly executed stratagem’ by the Deep State? I don’t think anyone here could argue against that. Was it a coup, short for coup d’etet, or an overthrow of government? I don’t think so. It didn’t overthrow anything, not in the ‘homeland’ at least. It catalyzed the expansion upon what was already in place. 9/11 was the golden operation of the Deep State, pressing all the right fear buttons, with enormous Industrial Complex gains, and incredible gains for the State at virtually any level of depth, not to mention the needed viagra for the MIC’s ‘force posture’. And where we see coups(false flags) and coups d’etat around globe, (most if not all that are advertised to the U.S. people, are directly or indirectly a result of Deep State operations), we simulataneously see coup d’esprit in the U.S masses, overthrows of the mind… deeper entrenchment in false facts, ensconced by fear. Coup appears to be the name of the game, and of the types of coups implemented, false flag, gov overthrow, or mind control, all seem to have a role to play per every Deep State operation.

    • All good points, Jeff.

      There are various coup styles: Hard coups, soft coups, covert coups … In many ways 9/11 was used to bypass, suspend (in some ways eliminate) many provisions under the Bill of Rights/Constitution. Think suspension of habeas corpus. The rights to privacy. Due Process …

      For example: in my court cases three constitutional rights were suspended, not through judiciary process, but with the Executive Branch ‘invoking 9/11,’ and by passing the previously required processes.

      The NSA’s new and other vastly expanded surveillance powers were put in place not through any congressional or court process, but simply done through the Executive Branch (military and intelligence complexes) invoking ‘9/11.’

      From detentions to torture, from warrantless searches in airports to FBI NS letters, from the engagement in undeclared wars to the expansion of the Executive powers and orders … all these police state rules and practices were plugged in, put in place, by ‘invoking 9/11.’

      So yes, I’d say it was a coup, a coup to overthrow the Constitution; a coup to eliminate previously owned liberties and rights; a coup to gain a license for limitless perpetual wars; a coup to overtly bypass international human rights provisions.

      I would love to hear from all of you, and get your take. As far as I am concerned: 9/11 was a major coup with the deep state as direct beneficiaries.

      • I would say that 9/11 was a One World Order Coup designed to mold the masses–not the French Revolution coup d’ etat. But definitely a coup. The financial collapse of Sept.13,14 in 2008 IMO was a Financial coup as well.

        • wallace gromit says:

          a coup is like a robbery or confidence game (con game). the general objective is always basically the same, to usurp resources or engender an advantageous view of reality on the part of another party. coups are a bit different obviously, but i think the analogies work because there are many different ways to do it, involving less or more resources, less or more subtlety and technique.

      • 344thBrother says:

        I liked your example of all the “Invoking 9/11” in lieu of using any actual law. I guess what we’ve been doing is trying to Invoke 9/11 right back. I think we’re scaring the hell out of them. Will it be enough? Damned if I know, but it seems like a desperate race to the end zone and all the chips are down. They’re playing a crooked/rigged game, but the truth and facts give us a big “Moral high ground” advantage. I’ll take that any day.

        • Dave,
          “I guess what we’ve been doing is trying to Invoke 9/11 right back.”- Exactly. It is using the enemy’s strategy/tactic; turning it back on them.

          Several commenters, justifiably, brought up Kennedy Assassination, as yet another coup. However, my fear is this: half a century later, where are we on that case? So many great books/analyses have been written. There are several small activist groups/forums who have refused to let go, and still ‘on it.’ Yet, it seems like a lost cause. It has gone down into that ‘permanent’ black hole. Are we going to see, experience, the same phenomena with 9/11? I see so many people who have let go; completely. Even formerly active and outspoken family members. They have given up; completely. Thus, are we going to be, like those leftover Kennedy Assassination investigation cult, here, right here, exactly in the same place, doing this exact same thing? Ten years from now. Twenty years from now…

          I certainly hope not. And yes, we will keep at it, keep invoking it; turn the table on them. Every time I see activist who have placed their entire focus on NSA illegal surveillance, I ask them to remember the trigger/catalyst, what made it so ‘overtly’ possible: I invoke 9/11.

          Every time I see activist who have placed their entire focus on Guantanamo, black sites, torture, I ask them to remember the trigger/catalyst, what made these so ‘overtly’ possible: I invoke 9/11.

          Every time I come across activist who have placed their entire focus on TSA patdowns and warrantless searches, I tell them to acknowledge the trigger/catalyst, what made these violations so ‘overtly’ possible: I invoke 9/11.

          Same with antiwar activists. Same with persecution and prosecution and imprisonment of government whistleblowers. How many whistleblowers actually made it to prisons before 9/11? None. So I invoke 9/11.

          • Sibel, one way I have gotten people to become curious about the 9/11 event(basically all of us here on this thread know it had to be a coup/inside job strictly based on physics) is to simply ask them , “have you ever seen the collapse of bldg. 7 on 9/11, 2001?” Since I usually ask rather intelligent types who bought the “official lie”, the most typical answer is usually “what is Bldg. 7?–you mean the twin towers?” Or “what are you talking about?” Or, “I don’t want to watch it–I cannot believe our govt. could do such a thing?” Academics types will staunchly refuse to gaze at 7 seconds!
            However, just today I talked on the phone with an old friend and brought up the question and he had never heard about Bldg.7. I told him it came down 9 hrs. after the twin towers were hit and 7 was not hit by anything. He googled it and found endless web sites and short clips. He said, “I can’t believe this? Is this real??!!” He was blown away–stunned; as he looked at different sites–he seemed giddy at one point. He told me he was going to study it. I told him to tell/ask 3 people and see what their reaction is.
            Obviously, I’m bringing this up because this is just another tool one can use to get a person’s mind moving. In fact, it is a teaching technique I would use with young people. I would NOT start explaining to them my take and all the endless details, theories, angles, qui bono?, etc.
            Just pick the right question to get the curiosity going.

          • 344thBrother says:

            People get tired and scared and “move on with their lives” or fight in other ways, but to me, it’s all about 911 because that was THE watershed event when “They attacked us on American soil” in such a grand scale that people who ignore it have to do so consciously or as a policy.

            I for one will never give up. I may take breathers, but I swore a blood oath on the day of 911 on my 343 dead brother firemen and although sometimes I regret having sworn that oath, I did swear it and so, if I fall by the wayside it won’t be for lack of trying.

            keep up the good fight all of you 911 truthers out there!

          • CuChulainn says:

            “However, my fear is this: half a century later, where are we on that case?” –this dead end, this separation between what can be known and what is known, which also applies to 9/11, is intrinsic to our society of the Spectacle, where everything is permitted but nothing is possible–absence of critical sense, of any real community. if we didn’t suffer from this we would not be here in this virtual community “The modern spectacle, on the contrary, expresses what society can do, but in this expression the permitted is absolutely opposed to the possible… All community and all critical sense are dissolved during this movement in which the forces that could grow by separating are not yet reunited.”

      • CuChulainn says:

        if you don’t mind repeating what i don’t remember from _Classified Woman_, what were the 3 constitutional rights that were suspended, and on what explicit basis?

        • CuChulainn,

          First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments.

          To bypass/suspend the application of those amendments they invoked the ‘State Secrets Privilege.’ SSP is an executive privilege never passed as a law by Congress (based on old common laws inherited from the Brits). To justify SSP they used: ‘Our nation is currently at war, under imminent threat by terrorists-Al Qaeda.’ And that justification was accepted/bought by the courts and congress very readily under ‘9/11 & we are at war under imminent danger.’

          The same SSP was later invoked for NSA unconstitutional spying: using same reasoning/justification, and getting it accepted by the Congress/Courts invoking 9/11.

          That SSP was also used in court cases on torture/kidnapping (ex: Maher Arrar Case): invoking 9/11.

      • Sibel,

        Would you consider the SES to be the deep state’s most visible face in government?

        It was forced upon Jimmy Carter to create this extremely unknown Entity within the Executive Branch by someone who is said to be evil incarnate, Kristine Marcy, the sister of Field McConnell.

    • Jeff & Sibel
      I’ve tended to think of it as “The Silent Coup”, meaning the coup that doesn’t announce itself. As pointed out, we are now on the far side of some fundamental rights we’ve taken for granted as settled law. I think Doug Valentine’s work is particularly valuable in understanding how it’s coming about organizationally and structurally, and by that level of comprehension he was able to predict in 1990 the important markers for its arrival on US soil. As he has said, “The Phoenix has landed,” and we’re left to deal with it.

  13. With regard to coup, PNAC and 911. Mr. Roberts is certainly taking this to high ground.
    “The Threat Posed to International Relations By The Neoconservative Ideology of American Hegemony, Address to the 70th Anniversary of the Yalta Conference, Institutes of Russian Academy of Sciences and Moscow State Institute of International Relations, Moscow, February 25, 2015, Hon. Paul Craig Roberts

  14. Was 9/11 a coup per se? I’m not sure parsing out that definition is useful.

    American society and governance has long been infected with something malevolent. We are still reverberating, to some degree, from 9/11, but it was a relative pin prick compared to the worst calamity the US suffered, namely the War Between the States. I find it just as impossible to believe that event was unscripted as I find it impossible to believe so for 9/11.

    Looking across the history of the US, from the Civil War to “Manifest Destiny” to the manipulations which dragged the US into two global wars and then initiated a strategy of perpetual war which continues even now, the evidence points to a parasite nestled snugly into the body of this nation. Actually, I would say the body of this world because the parasite is global in reach. I use this analogy because at the biological level, the contest between parasite and host is as old as evolution itself.

    This parasite engorges itself on treasure and blood, and regularly drives its host into spasms of fear and violence (strategy of tension), not only to further enrich itself, but also to drain energy and distract the host from detecting the infection and developing an immune response. If you analogize the host to your own human body, if you are continually engaging in combat and working like a slave and dealing with all the stress and injuries which result from all these things you find yourself driven to do, how likely are you to achieve the equanimity and introspection necessary to diagnose your real problem?

    I believe the deep state has come to understand that real peace is very dangerous to it, because if people in the main aren’t continually focusing on an external threat, they might actually start to THINK and say, “wait a minute…what is this thing in our societal body which seems to have such a rich supply of blood and resources and nerve fibers connecting it to all our major organs? In return for all these resources it performs no beneficial function whatsoever, and in fact there is evidence it causes great harm…it must be a parasite! A cancer!”

    An infected host needs to develop antibodies, which are cells which have the proper TEMPLATE to detect malevolent cells and flag them for neutralization by the immune system. What I would hope for BFP is that we contribute to the detailed research needed to craft a very accurate and specific template for the core infection in our society, and propagate it into society where it can have beneficial effect.

    When I think of what we call the “deep state”, what I picture is an abscess deep inside the body, full of pus and infection. I personally experienced the real thing after a botched gall bladder operation, spending over a week in hospital on IV antibiotics. After several days of relentless attack by antibiotics, the disgusting contents of the abscess were expelled by my body through the drainage opening. It happened suddenly and painfully, as though a final membrane inside me finally gave way. As soon as that happened, I began to get dramatically better, and was able to go home a couple of days later.

    If the deep state infection can be increasingly attacked by “antibodies” with the correct template, there may eventually be an analogous threshold event where a final membrane gives way, and the infection is expelled.

    • Well said Knarf!!

    • Knarf, What a great thought-provoking analogy. I can see this thread (your comment threat) becoming its own subtopic.

      I agree with everything said here: it is a cancer. My question: What stage cancer? How far and deep the spread? Because it is one thing if it is diagnosed as stage I, and another if it is in late stage: Let’s say Stage IV. Has it metathesized to the point of no return & guaranteed death? Is it at the stage requiring massive dosage of chemo (aka radical revolution; to be wiped out completely and then start from scratch)? What is your diagnosis if we were to continue with this analogy?

      Let’s liken it to ‘Gangrene.’ Is it at a stage where the body has a slight chance to fight and overcome it? At a stage where it can be cured with certain level of antibiotics? Or is it at a stage where we need to cut the body part and part with it for survival?

      You see how it brings us back to where we started (in a good way)? Because accurate diagnosis, determining the stage and level of the cancer, would determine the type of ‘revolution’ we began this topic with. Yes? No?

      p.s. I am happy/glad to hear about your complete recovery.

      • Yes Sibel, I agree we are at the main point. Before the body can fight off the disease, it has to recognize the threat and it has to decide it will do whatever is necessary to survive. We are not tilting at windmills for merely the sake of upholding some ideal. We are fighting for life itself.

        The antibody immune cells in the body are very much a minority of all the cells. You might say they are the Irate Minority, because they carry a template, which is simply a form of encoded information, which gives them the ability to recognize and call out malevolent cells, be they infection or cancer or parasite. These antibody cells are in a sense angry and aggressive and looking for the bad guys in every nook and cranny. A body with any health remaining can protect itself from dangerous germs and even the vast majority of cancer cells, but only if the dangerous cells are detected and flagged by the angry antibodies.

        If we in fact live in a society which is so far gone as to be suicidally apathetic, then there is no hope no matter what we do. If that is the case, our society is a dead body which just hasn’t fallen down yet. If there is no health and no spark of life left in this body, we could find the bad guys, drag them into the street with proof of their crimes piled around them, and people would just shrug and keep walking. If it was like in the movies I suppose some of us would become judge, jury and executioner, but that is the road to hell. One man’s street justice is another man’s death squad. Ultimate power of choosing who dies and who lives is 100% corrupting, we all know that in our bones. If society wasn’t quite dead yet, such madness would finish it off.

        I don’t know if the overall diagnosis is terminal or not, and really it doesn’t make any difference. In the end we’re all dead no matter what, even if we remake society into utopia. So we’ve all cleared that psychological hurdle long ago. We have a chance to do what we can in the brief moments we have, and that is all we get.

        Among my friends there are only three which are intellectually curious at all, but I seriously doubt any of them are psychologically prepared to accept and integrate the template. They simply won’t allow themselves to know such things, because they feel if they take even one step in that direction, there is no stopping from sliding completely over the edge and losing all professional credibility, or worse. At least, that is my best guess, and in one case it’s actually what I was told.

        I can’t really relate because I’ve been over the edge my entire adult life. Stuff happens.
        Anyway, I’ve given them some information and told them if they don’t want to pursue it any further or speak of it ever again, I’ll respect their wish. I believe that kind of approach is the best we can do in terms of trying to make more “antibodies” from our friends or family. Getting bombastic or shrill will only damage our case.

        Revolution…Sibel, what does it mean? It feels as if I’ve been in the midst of a revolution for decades. It is almost indescribable; the extent to which the world I once knew has been turned upside down and inside out. Now the robots are coming, robot cars, robot drones…anyone who wants to create a squad of killer avatar robots in the not-so-distant future will only need some off-the-shelf hardware and processing power, 5G bandwidth, and some morally vacant kids somewhere, anywhere, who’ve been playing bloody FPS video games since the age of four. They’ll hardly know the difference between the gory game and the gory reality except for not being able to respawn if their avatar is destroyed or otherwise becomes non-functional. It’s not extremely difficult to imagine society getting to a point where a dominant majority become convinced the only way to survive is to turn off technology altogether. Shut down the power grid and bring industry to a halt, and everyone just start hoeing rows and planting beans.

        That might be the answer to the riddle of the Drake Equation, concerning the multitude of intelligent civilizations the Universe should have spawned. The riddle is, “where are they?”, so maybe the answer is they all got to the point where they had to abandon technology simply to survive, and are on their respective planets hoeing rows and spinning their own cloth.

        I like the Constitution; I’d like to see it actually observed to the letter (which NEVER has happened). I suppose that’s revolutionary, since it’s the desiring of something which has never been. I’ll settle for that, a Constitutional republic of as few laws and as much liberty as is humanly possible, without a filthy covert cadre of lizard-brains screwing everything up for everybody. Anything short of that, I’ll remain irate.

        • Wesley Adams says:


        • Knarf,
          “Anything short of that, I’ll remain irate.”- Thus, I am united with you.

        • 344thBrother says:

          fully agree Knarpf.

          Interesting take on technological advancement. “They’re all hoeing rows now”. A brighter future than, they all reached a technological pinnacle and blew themselves to atoms. Ted Kaszinski flipped out after MKULTRA messed with his brain for a couple years, escaped to the woods and started building bombs to blow up people who were advancing technology. He believed that technology would destroy the human race. Now we’ve got robots building robot drones for corporations to make money building to attack us with. Ted may have been onto something.

          I think my row hoeing days are over, but I will defend to the death your right to do so. : )

          • I think we’re all having our brains messed with, via media. Or might I say, the Spectacle. The less TV I watch, the clearer I can think, it seems. Whatever the “effect” is, it doesn’t seem to come through YouTube, though that may be more a function of my under-powered computer.

            Not long ago I was face-to-arm with a big Fanuc. That thing could pick up a car and throw it across the room. Concentric steel shafts driven by hi-torque steppers, inside very massive housings. It’s just one arm, but imagine if it had four of them and a self-contained power source. No stopping it with anything short of a tank. The Second Amendment will become as quaint as the Third.

            The Balance of Terror between _____ (fill in the blank with whoever finds you inconvenient) and ourselves, really is about to change drastically. There are now little wing-ed drones which are as quick and agile as bats. Flick, flick, sting, flick, flick, gone…no evidence. A new kind of fear.

        • Knarf, Have you heard this one? Some intellectual asked Gandhi what he thought od Western civilization? Gandhi replied, “that would be a good idea.”

          • No real civilization, and no real culture either, IMHO. We live in a jungle with shiny toys.

            The homogenization of American culture which so predominated the 20th century is something I would compare to running a three-course meal through a blender. It will provide sustenance, if you can manage to swallow it.

        • 344thBrother says:

          Great point on the Civil War Knarf. We agree.

      • 344thBrother says:

        RE: Cancer.
        I don’t think the prognosis is terminal yet, but the diagnosis is grim. The cancer has metastasized and is spreading throughout the bodily organs. Some of those organs aren’t going to survive. I think radical surgery is called for and a lot of homeopathic remedy as well. It’s not going to be any fun for the patient but survivability is still possible. . . A big part of the cure is going to require us to stop doing what we’re doing that’s making it all worse…

        God bless us every one.

        • Homeopathy is a scam. Natural remedies aren’t, like the L-Arginine, Magnesium Glycerophosphate and Kava Kava tea I brew to calm my nerves.

          Homeopathy dilutes poisons to inactive levels and that is supposed to help you build a tolerance to them.

          Signed,BFP’s in house Pharmacologist
          (not bragging, I mentioned this being my degree before but only when hard science, especially of the environmental toxins which makes me need to use Androgel (a testosterone gel) in my early 30’s…all these plastics that act like estrogen that we can’t see did to me and millions of others who are unable to have babies. Although I was surprised that my blood tests indicated low T….had no problems with my old lady, if you know what I mean 😉

  15. Just wanted to express a quick thanks, Sibel. The subject matter guarantees that it’s beyond interesting, but it’s your concise, well-organized, and, I don’t know, charming presentation that makes it have such impact.

    For my money the coup came in 1963 in Dallas. Post-9/11 is a breathtaking expansion and consolidation, albeit sufficiently extreme to consider it a new coup. Coup Redux.

    Which begs the question: why? Power for its own sake? Psychopaths doing what psychopaths do? Or some coming catastrophe — post-peak oil, a disastrous decline in energy resources, a Mad Max future of chaos requiring hyper-police-state technologies and policies to protect the privileged? One really has to wonder what motivates these kinds of people.

    • John, thank you for your encouraging words-as I have said before, your encouragement becomes the needed fuel for me.

      “…why? Power for its own sake?”- I think this is the main characteristic of all empires; their rise and their ultimate fall. When the empire reaches the state where it begins its decline, and it sees the bottom as destination, it escalates its psychopathic behavior (perpetual wars, human rights abuses, police state tactics, false flag operations, propaganda …) … despite the fact that doing so only speeds up its decline. When you look at the last stages of any past empires you see this same exact characteristics/behavior. If this observation is correct, then, the question becomes: will they be taking everyone down with them? It sure looks like it- from genocidal wars to economic destruction to environmental destruction to …

    • 344thBrother says:

      1963. Agreed on one level. I see 1963 as a flexing and testing of the muscles that the 1947 National Security Act gave the CIA and then soon to become all the other powers that be. Now it looks like the vegetables are running the vegetable soup agencies. : ) Once they got away clean with Kennedy and with killing so many of the witnesses, I think they had their litmus test and they liked the results.


    • Peak oil proved to be a wrong theory. Russians have known all along that oil is abiotic hence all the oil and gas they found under Putin’s and lol Medvedev’s reign in places that the oligarchs said they found nothing when they were trying to plunder russia in the 90’s.

  16. Wesley Adams says:

    I like it. There is a time to listen and a time to speak. I’m listening and don’t find much to disagree with. Keep up the good work everyone.

  17. Sibel, once again I want to thank you for an enlightening episode. I know this must be difficult for you to go through again. You have chosen to take us back through all the steps you’ve lived through so we understand the depths of control the deep state exerts over our lives. By going through this, step by careful step, with all the detail you have collected painstakingly over the years, you bring to the rest of us a personal understanding that can help us deal with what we see – intuitively – from this point on. This is a great gift you are giving us.

    We all need to understand what Sibel knows. It enables us to see with better eyes what has been right in front of us all along. At the same time we grasp for positive actions that we can take to make others aware. Something we can do, rather than trying to share the podcasts with non-members, is finding those we think would benefit from membership, who would fit in with this family, and gift them with one or both of Sibel’s books. If they show more interest, then a gift of a year’s membership might follow. I know this may not be easy financially for those of us living on small incomes, but I find it extremely satisfying, when I can, to expand the awareness of others. To let them know that there are those who care enough to seek understanding. We cannot change others. But we can be the change we want to see, and in so doing give others an opening they may not know exists – to change themselves. It’s a slow process, but to paraphrase Kahlil Gibran, the well of happiness is often filled with tears, which in turn enlarge the capacity of that well for more joy. So my thanks to all members for sharing your thoughts and feelings in this process.

    • Dennis, greatly appreciated.

      I selected one of many photos depicting parents/family members gathering in Taksim Square, sitting on the sidewalk, holding their ‘missing/disappeared’ loved ones’ pictures. It is one thing to see it in pictures, and another when you see that in person. I frequented Taksim Square regularly (to buy books, to find rare music albums, etc.), and got to see them in person. You’d see an old lady sitting there, with saddest eyes, holding a picture of her missing son or daughter, and despite everything, still showing some level of hope, coming there and doing this every week despite. Doing this after a decade later, two decades later, three decades later … Now multiply that with several hundred others-who have been doing the same. It breaks your heart. It makes you cry: Not only the loss, but their hope.

    • Super idea Dennis. Amazon makes it easy for lazybones like me so I’m doing just that. Anyone who reads the first chapter of Classified Woman will be hooked and probably on their way down the rabbit hole, if they’re at a level of intellectual maturity which can accept and integrate the information.

      I don’t know how many people actually go the library these days but I think it’s certainly worth the effort to make sure your local branches have the book.

      • 344thBrother says:

        Great idea.

        I will check in the local libraries in Humboldt County for Classified Woman and if they don’t have it, I’ll get a copy and donate. Also Lone Gladio.

  18. Sibel, I’m going to venture forth with another comment today.
    Recently I wrote that there are those at the grass-roots level who are actually making some difference – without even knowing all of ways that we have been deceived. Some do see the negative impacts the mega-corporations have on their daily lives and have chosen to do what they can in their local communities. It may not seem like much in the short term, but it has huge long-term possibilities. Of course, we know why we don’t hear about these folks in the “news”, right?
    I want to give some examples here. I hope this will not be too long for the comments section – but here goes…
    It seems to me, (and others), the basis for the success of the deep state is the fact that our personal human rights declared in the 14th Amendment of the Bill of Rights have been subjugated by a lie – one that gave Corporations unequal rights over “we the people”.
    The lie involves the definition of the word “person” under the law. Thom Hartmann devoted a book, “Unequal Protection: The rise of corporate dominance and theft of human rights”, to this subject. I suggest checking his web site for a Summary of this book and chapter excerpts.
    Here is a brief quote from that “Summary”:
    “Corporations are legal fictions created with the sole purpose of being a vehicle for the aggregation of wealth. They can live forever. They can change identity in a day. They can cut off parts of themselves and from them grow new selves. They can own others of their own kind. They don’t need fresh air or clean water and don’t fear illness or death.

    Yet now, because of this misinterpretation of an 1886 Supreme Court case, corporations have the rights of “persons.”

    “Corporations now have free speech rights (even though they are not voters or citizens), and can work to influence political campaigns and write laws. They have privacy rights and can deny OSHA and EPA inspectors access to their properties. They have 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination and double jeopardy. They have 14th amendment rights to equal protection under the law and can thus prevent local communities from ” discriminating ” against them in favour of small, local businesses.”

    “The result of this legal error has been the virtual takeover of our political and legal processes by corporations. But some humans are working to take back government and return us to the intentions of this nation’s Founders. The movement is to deny corporate personhood and restore human rights to humans.”

    As I said, there are those in local communities moving to change this – to take “personhood” away from artificial persons (corporations). Another area to browse for ideas:
    Community Rights educator Paul Cienfuegos explains how “We The People” are exercising the authority to govern ourselves and dismantle corporate rule. When small farmers in rural Pennsylvania wanted to say “no” to a corporate factory farm coming into their community, they learned they couldn’t, because it would violate the corporation’s “rights” and state pre-emption laws. So they did something technically illegal – their town passed an innovative ordinance banning corporate factory farming. It worked! The corporation left town. Pittsburgh upshifted the approach: Rather than define what we don’t want, define what we DO want. Their “Right to Water” stopped natural gas fracking in the city. Ordinances like this have been passed in over 150 communities in 9 states.
    Is this a revolutionary idea – this notion of taking personhood away from corporations and returning it to “we the people”? Or does this sound like small potatoes? There was once a revolution in this country – in 1776 – precipitated by this very thing. The Tea Tax they were up in arms over was put in place on colonial farmers so that the British East India Company could maintain its monopoly on tea sales in the colonies. Ever since then the corporations have been trying to reclaim their ascendancy. It was a long slow process, but they finally did it. Hopefully, undoing that may not take as long.

    • Dennis,
      “It may not seem like much in the short term, but it has huge long-term possibilities. Of course, we know why we don’t hear about these folks in the “news”, right?”- Absolutely. Some do it as environmentalist, some do it as small honest charity groups, some do it as activist physicians (I know a small group that has created its own little mobile clinic going to three neighboring states- mountain villages). As long as we have those, however few, however small, we have hope. And yes, there are many ways to contribute and engage in activism. Each one counts. Each one valuable.

      Great examples. My question: shouldn’t we qualify ‘corporation’? A small family business producing organic farm goods is set up as a sub chapter XYZ corporation vs. Mega Corporation such as Monsanto. In Bend, where I currently live, there is a huge level of support for local businesses: ‘localitarianism’.The majority here boycott chain stores, mega corporations. One example: a small family-owned micro brewery that had a great local business (plus tourist business) was recently bought by Bush Beer. Within two days the entire social network and other physical community channels were filled with united voices: We will not frequent this place any longer. And they delivered. Now, the place is still active, but mainly with visitors/tourists, not locals. My point is: it is important to qualify the entities we refer to as ‘corporations.’ The other side always uses our slogans against us: they depict those activists as anti business, anti all businesses (small companies, ma-pa shops …). Of course, combined with ignorance and media propaganda, some decent small business owners end up supporting the other side. This is why, even though it sounds like hyperbole, I call them ‘mega corporations.’ We are talking WalMart, Boeing, Monsanto, Lockheed, JP Morgan, SAIC, … not Lucy’s organic farm goods or Jack’s coffeehouse.

      Do you agree?

      • Sibel – I absolutely agree – 100%. We should distinguish by using the term ‘mega corporations’. And here in my neck of the woods, as in Bend, we have the same thing happening. I have also seen long abandoned small farms, forced out by mega-financiers for the factory farms, being bought and started anew by young people who never farmed before (and they find retired small farmers to help them learn the land). and the land having sat for several years, now can support organic practices. I love it!

      • Of course small business needs the ability to incorporate with limited liability, so that people will be willing to take the plunge and provide opportunity for themselves and others. If we say down with all corporations, we are killing our own milk cow.

        I really like the idea of local circulation and in fact I’m pulling substantial amounts of my funds out of the mega-financial corporations and investing them into my homestead while making a lot of work for local contractors and sub-contractors. All of them locally-owned and operated, no chains. I see this as enlightened self-interest on multiple levels. It’s wise to bring the money home to the local economy, and it’s wise to convert cash into tangible improvements which add value and which no one can take away so easily as numbers on paper.

        When “they” start making people with savings and investment accounts “bail-in” to the financial system they’ve been systematically looting, I want to be as out as possible. I’m suspicious of precious metals because all “they” have to do is declare them to be contraband and set a turn-price. After that happens, no one is going to give you a higher price in barter. So I’d rather convert some numbers on paper into enlarging and upgrading my homestead and getting completely out of debt. If I had a small business, I would be putting my investment there as well.

        The deep state, a number of mega-corporations and some high-profile universities are intertwined like symbiotic organisms, I think it’s safe to say. The so-called “revolving doors” lay out the map for us very clearly. They all belong to the same club, and as George Carlin said, “we ain’t in it”.

        One club, one problem. Back to Square One.

  19. hi Sibel
    if you don’t know it i think you will want to read Ryan Gingeras’ new book:
    Heroin, Organized Crime, and the Making of Modern Turkey by Ryan Gingeras (Author)

  20. wallace gromit says:

    listening to this, it had me thinking back on how many false flags have been executed in recent times, compared to times prior. its actually quite shocking. as more conventional and varied techniques fail to work anymore for OG networks and their related groups/actors, false flags seem to be something they depend on more and more, and turn quicker too, also use with far less scruples.
    for instance, there’s been 4 false flags just in ukraine near the front in the last few months: kramatorsk, karkhiv, mariupol and bus attack (volnovakha? cant remember name). which is interesting because of the causes and obvious objectives being so apparent, and so simple.
    then there’s the number of fairly sloppy false flags outside of military theatres in the last year or two as well. the only one that really feels like a ‘golden era’ standard OG op (think mid 90s to early 00s- or OKC to 7/7) has been the charlie hebdo op. but theres a handful more of quite substandard gigs, especially this latest nemtsov thing.
    i think this indicates that the western– or more specifically– DMV+chicago based deep state is realizing itself that desperation time for them has come, and have begun to flail tactically. i think this loss of composure will continue to accelerate and we will see far more irrationally aggressive, violent and out of touch decision making from them.

    • 344thBrother says:

      Your answer would encourage me except that propaganda and the false flag attacks that spawn the propaganda is/are designed specifically with the proles in mind. It’s purposely dumbed down the better to connect with the masses. So they can flail their way out of danger as long as they flail bigger and badder and louder and dumber over time. Even the small attacks like the Boston bombings served a purpose, (keep the proles in line and stirred up and keep that police state ratcheting up).

      I can’t help but think that something really big and spectacular is in the offing though. There are still a number of powerful nuclear devices missing. (The cruise missiles that were hijacked from Minot, ND where all the soldiers involved turned up dead) and the devices missing from Texas recently.

      Where’d they go? Why were they taken? What are they going to be used for? It doesn’t seem like it will be for the purposes of threat because the thefts weren’t widely publicized…


      • “Even the small attacks like the Boston bombings served a purpose, (keep the proles in line and stirred up and keep that police state ratcheting up).”- Absolutely. Exactly the same dynamics we saw recently with France Hebdo.

        • Same here in Australia with the stupid Sydney Siege thing.
          There are more holes in that than proverbial swiss cheese. Its been effective though to further polarize the public, ratchet up the fear and provide mandate for stronger support for military operations in Iraq/Syria. Even people who realise Iraq WMD lies are fooled again.

          This is what we’re working against…all the evidence in the world, all the history lessons and the majority of the masses are still so easily fooled when they are subjected to fear.

      • Freemasons stole these for further blackmail purpose…like how they stole Russian Granit missiles from the sunken Kursk submarine. Some say they have a base in Papua-New Guinea.
        As the most remote least industrialized medium size country in the world, it’s the perfect place to put a secret base that isn’t owned by a Nation but by the psychopaths that are the Freemasons.

  21. 344thBrother says:

    Exactly like 911, also like:
    (probably a lot of the molotov coctail attacks during the anti-Vietnam riots and probably a lot of the attacks that were attributed to the SDS and Weathermen during that same time period)
    Charles Manson and the SDS leader Donald Cinque and Patty Hearst (most likely mind control subjects)
    Ted Kaszinski (obviously a mind control subject),
    1993 WTC Bombing,
    Oakland Judy Bari bombing,
    so many fake events, so so many.

    How was 911 used to shape minds for multiple wars? Example, merely using “September 11th” in the same sentence as “Saddam Husssein” resulted in 70% of Americans believing that Hussein had something to do with 911, even when it was officially denied quietly that he did.

    911 has been used for every war and “Security state” excuse since it happened. Every single one without exception. It was also used to slap the media into shape and draw a bright line between people who would toe the line and those who would buck the system thus providing a easy to recognize separation between “us and the terrorists”. And of course all us branded terrorists became the enemy of everyone who was willing to toe that line, however superficially.

    Can we consider all the operations post 911 a coup? Yes definitely. It was planned. It was prepared for. It was pre-programmed by the media, it was executed, it was covered up and it was used as a weapon against everyone who questioned the official narrative and still is to this day.

    Was 911 and it’s immediate aftermath a coup? Yes definitely

    Question. After it came out publicly that the Coup in Turkey was manufactured by the same people who were doing the attacks, was there any meaningful public backlash? Was anyone ever brought to justice? Were any of the new “Security state” actions rolled back?


    • 344thBrother says:

      Correction Donald Cinque was the leader of the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) , not the Students for a Democratic Society. SDS

    • Dave,

      Quick answers, but I’ll be back later for more:

      “After it came out publicly that the Coup in Turkey was manufactured by the same people who were doing the attacks, was there any meaningful public backlash?”- The revelations came much later; I’d say at least 10-15 years later, and not at once. Most of those came with ‘Susurluk’ in 1997-1998 time frame. Backlash: yes; meaningful: fairly; better/more than what we have had with 9/11 in US. Even today, there are vocal movements demanding justice and accountability. The call for trial of involved generals was recently put in ‘semi’ action by the current gov. The general who headed the coup, Evren, died, the day we posted this episode (Thursday, Deb 26). Amazing, no? He was one of those scheduled for trial …

      “Was anyone ever brought to justice?”- No. Now, after 34+years, he gov is starting trials for those involved. Guess what? Many of them already dead. Others in institutions, death-bed. On the other hand, the majority in Turkey know that the real culprits are oceans away (CIA/USA). Over 70% of Turkish people believe that 9/11 was CIA-Gladio operations. A recent article (one of our MSM outlets here in US) characterized Turkish majority as : Conspiracy Theorists;-)

      “Were any of the new “Security state” actions rolled back?”- Sure. After 12-15 years, after systematic conditioning taking effect, after eliminating 500K+ activist/leaders, … they went from overtly military dictatorship to covertly military dictatorship;-)

      • 344thBrother says:

        Thank you for your timely answers Sibel:
        Not what I would call encouraging, but it does show that reality can sink into the public psyche over time, even if it does have little meaningful effect.

        This was interesting:
        “Evren, died, the day we posted this episode (Thursday, Deb 26). Amazing, no? He was one of those scheduled for trial … ”

        Amazing… yes and no. This seems to happen a lot lately doesn’t it? Especially when it’s someone implicated in the nefarious deeds of “Intelligence agencies” (I hate that phony phrase), in general and the CIA/NATO in particular.

        It’s kind of funny that 70% of Turkish residents are considered “Conspiracy theorists” maybe a new term is called for… “Realist Theorist”? Anyway another great episode.

  22. “probably a lot of the molotov coctail attacks during the anti-Vietnam riots and probably a lot of the attacks that were attributed to the SDS and Weathermen during that same time period)”

    Does anyone harbor doubts that William Ayres, Annenberg-funded “educational theorist,” “…a guy I knew in my neighborhood…”, is a deep-cover deep state actor?

    Once while I was in school in the late 60’s there was an attempted SDS rally on campus, which I think fizzled out pretty quickly, and all I did was walk up to the fringes of the assembly and listen for a couple of minutes, before wandering off disinterested. Years later I was shown a photo of myself taken at that moment by the FBI or someone acting on their behalf. What a hoot. The ponderous gear-grinding mechanism of the State knows everything, understands nothing.

    • steven hobbs says:

      Knarf, “Does anyone harbor doubts that William Ayres, Annenberg-funded “educational theorist,” “…a guy I knew in my neighborhood…”, is a deep-cover deep state actor?”

      I’m totally enjoying these conversations. Still, well, yes. I would like to inject a little doubt, and consider the evidentiary basis for your accusation — assumptions and beliefs. I’m not a lawyer. Just like to keep things real, and suggest we raise the bar for belief and thought in these conversations. Evidence that people with big feet are sometimes tall doesn’t mean everyone with a big foot is tall. I’ll mention here, that I know little about Ayres.

      I’m a bit concerned about the dialectic here becoming black/white, all/nothing, “paranoid,” and thereby missing nuance. If we see enemies around every corner we are likely to miss allies. What does it mean to “be a state actor”?

      For example, is Kaczynski a state actor? What about those who act thinking they are doing something else, but it’s really a sting, or following a carrot and they don’t know see a string? What about those normal (unenlightened, or simi-enlightened) actors who are “trying” to “do good”? Have you heard Ayres criticism of modern educational system? It’s actually worth a listening. Just because he may not meet, your or my bravery, or awareness, criteria doesn’t mean everything else he has to say is worth dismissing out of hand, or that his intention is to support the deep state.
      Let’s define terms what is a “state actor” as opposed to a “petty criminal,” or “academic” taking advantage of opportunity. What name would we give those who aid the beast without knowing they do so? Ignorant conventional actors?

      I don’t know that it furthers our reasoning to call names and make assumptions about motivations. It does make sense to refer to specific actions and how those actions contributes or detract from liberty. Is it fair of me to complain about someone not putting their lives on the line as Ayers did, knowingly or not, and then again? Or, even once? We all attempt to negotiate our inspiration toward freedom, liberty, and fraternity with our well-being and independence. My preference is to get insight and wisdom and judge on that epistimic basis rather than call names.

      • An actor is someone who plays a role. The totality of Ayre’s life indicates he’s been playing the role of programmed opposition and has achieved considerable rank and seniority in the power structure. He mentored Obama into the heart of the Chicago political machine and almost certainly ghosted “Dreams of My Father”. Hardly a bit part.

        In his role, he quite possibly is both braver and more aware than either you or me. I would never accuse him of being naive or a dupe.

        As for the term “deep state”, it’s probably a catch-all term subject to continuous clarification and evolution as more is learned. Most things are fine-grained and granulated when dissected. The deep state constellation is probably a hierarchy of power structures, each being necessarily aware of those subjugated to it, while being aware of only one to which it is subject. The basic principle of need-to-know is all that’s needed to explain the inherent stability of such a layer-cake.

        So the natural question is, which layer is the threshold of the “deep state?” In my subjective opinion, the lowest layer which disregards common law with impunity, is the boundary of the deep state. If you’re thinking Mafia, Sinaloa cartel, and other miscellaneous organized crime, bingo. Organized crime is a primary functional arm of the deep state.

        I have an infinitely expandable grey box which I keep people in until the preponderance of evidence indicates they belong in the black box. I don’t have a white box, because it would be a waste of space, containing only air.

        • steven hobbs says:


          “As for the term “deep state”, it’s probably a catch-all term subject to continuous clarification and evolution as more is learned. Most things are fine-grained and granulated when dissected. The deep state constellation is probably a hierarchy of power structures, each being necessarily aware of those subjugated to it, while being aware of only one to which it is subject. The basic principle of need-to-know is all that’s needed to explain the inherent stability of such a layer-cake.” You make important points: 1) “deep state” is imprecise — it’s meaning emerging from the definitions we give it, and usage; 2) need to know basis of independent actors makes knowledge of the whole impossible.

          It seems neither of us are convinced that “hierarchy” for deep state description is the best for (possibly) loosely organized groups acting confluently toward similar (but primarily self aggrandizing) ends. The Mafia is a good example, as it is (from my limited knowledge) sometimes more uncoordinated sub-organs acting independently, and other times more tightly organized when it serves each group,and some groups may mutiny. As we, hopefully, move toward great understand these things, it seems worthwhile to be specific about actions in distinction from co-ordination, knowledge, intention, and motivation. The former is easier to validate than the latter and first to establish. Using a familiar and comfortable idea to interpret raw data gets close to confirmation bias.

          Ayers for example (someone I know next to nothing about), may have knowledge, motivation, and intention to aid the deep state. His awareness, knowledge and intention to collude is much more challenging to verify, but easy to make assumptions about. My particular preference is focus more on observables than hypotheticals. Such as, his aiding Obummer. That’s not to say mental state investigations are worthless, quite the contrary. But remembering that reference to internal states such as knowledge and intention are (more often than not) hypothetical.

          Let’s keep some doubt that the deep state is hierarchically organized. It may be that there are many groups acting confluently to aggrandize their (individual) power with varying degrees of knowledge and coordination from a great deal to none. It may not be that they are all ruled from on high. Although this culture is heavily influenced by patriarchy, lets not assume that is the only dynamic. That would be an equal mistake. Rather, let’s try, together, to tease out desperate elements that disprove our assumptions.

          • I would say so-called organized crime may be a good example of the lowest level of the layer cake, where control is spotty and loose ends are…loosest. They certainly kill each other with gusto, especially near the US-Mexico border.

            If there was no hierarchical organization higher up the food chain, it’s hard to imagine everyone would just naturally stay out of each others’ way sufficiently to avoid open warfare and bodies in the streets. Not only does that not happen, but on the contrary the ranks appear to be tightly closed in terms of operational security and mutual CYA. There must be some sort of structure which imposes order.

          • steven hobbs says:

            “If there was no hierarchical organization higher up the food chain, it’s hard to imagine everyone would just naturally stay out of each others’ way sufficiently to avoid open warfare and bodies in the streets.” Indeed!

            Still, let’s remember, “it’s hard to imagine,” is one rationalized excuse for example to avoid investigation (e.g., of 9/11). I’m simply suggesting that we not assume there is a grand hierarchy of coordination (falling into confirmation bias), but instead seek substantial evidence of coordination and methods, or lack there of. It seems to this observer that there is indication and some substantial evidence of coordination, but where is that not the case. And, how might that be exploited?

  23. 344thBrother says:

    I sure don’t doubt it, and isn’t it funny that so many years later Barack Dronebomber just happens to appear from the woodwork and he just happens to be a friend of Ayers and co.?

    yeah. funny

  24. CuChulainn says:

    as Nafeez points out in this new article: “Both Nawaz and Choudary have received huge mainstream media attention, generating press headlines, and contributing to major TV news and current affairs shows. But unbeknown to most, they have one thing in common: Britain’s security services.”
    the correlation between media exposure, operations to influence “hearts and minds,” and connections to the security services seems to be a rule of thumb–anyone who receives such exposure can almost be assumed to not be at cross purposes with the other two

  25. Hi Sibel. I have a question for you. I just read the latest BFP post from Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, including the link to the nuclear attack description. Being I was on what one might call “the front lines” of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I am well aware of the consequences given there. So, my question is this. Do you think the neocons will be allowed to go this far – by THEIR controllers? I believe this is the right place to ask this question, since we are talking about the deep state and how deep it goes. 😉

    • Dennis,

      My humble opinion: No; I don’t think so. Because economically, $$$$$$-wise, it does not make sense. On the other, floating the threat, as they did for almost half a century during the Cold War, to create tension & fear, does make sense. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts, and others’, on this.

    • @DENNIS and SIBEL: I’ve been a follower of PCR for years and I’ve studied the evolution of the neocons. In the seventies the elders of today’s neocons hooked up with “Scoop Jackson”–a rabid commie hater. In general, the neocons are prolific writers to the point of being “OCD” about it. So they compiled something called “A Clean Break”—which was a straight up Gladio A work.
      Then they evolved through time, writing, writing…publishing journals, mags, articles which where mostly read by them and close allies–for example, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Armitage, et al. There is much literature out there so I won’t go into the usual names. etc.
      One thing I found in my study were certain interesting lines of psychopathy. Among other deep pathological elements which men connected or close to power experience is a weird sense of omnipotence. The neocons had that combined with a gnawing uncertainty of their own manhood. Practically all were afraid of physical violence, while being fascinated with sending young men off to die in bloody hell. My hunch also is that many of them may have something akin to a “death wish”. I would call it a ‘Nero Syndrome” Mad men dancing with one another as the mushroom clouds boil across the planet! For me, it is their pathology I worry about as they whisper evil sounds into power broker’s ears. This level of pathology transcends $$$$$. It is what Freud called “Thanatos”(ancient Greek meaning death) in the Id–“Death Wish”..
      I cannot fathom a total nuclear war. But Paul C. Roberts knows these guys are strange. The biggest threat, of course, would be a “Black Swan”(an unknown unknown). That is what worries Mr. Roberts. Any number of things could “flip the switch”. For me, because of the absolute onslaught of complexity and uncertainty on the planet, hell, it could go anytime. Nothing is certain.

      • “In general, the neocons are prolific writers to the point of being “OCD” about it.”

        So many great thoughts and comments of serious import in this thread, still it’s good to get a laugh. Thanks.

      • steven hobbs says:

        Ron, “This level of pathology transcends $$$$$. It is what Freud called “Thanatos”(ancient Greek meaning death) in the Id–“Death Wish”

        Freud’s is an interesting description of behavior. Let me suggest W Reich’s counter to Freud’s postulate. Looking deeper into the somatic response of this pathology, a more plausible explanation may not be – Death Wish, but fear of pleasure, orgasmic release, losing control that is feared. Thus, death is more tolerable than loss of control. This moves toward an analysis of patriarchy, and fear of full female sexuality. As has been said, men enjoy sex — so do women, just ten times more. That threatens male psychopaths to the death of them.

    • A few years ago someone was showing me an animated world map showing all the thousands nuclear tests over the Cold War timeline. All I could see were dollar signs. And that’s just one revenue stream. The MIC did very well over the Cold War, notwithstanding a few slumps, nicely offset by hot wars. But the Cold War pales in comparison to the Terror War. The 9/11 coup has produced warfare of all temperatures and coups of every size and type. There is no foreseeable end to the Terror War… but the Cold War did last about 40 years… that’s a long time. 9/11 war products satisfy a wide range of industrial complexes, and regardless of its perceived infinity, we have yet to see its true longevity. But War on Terror is far greater in complexity and scope than the Cold War. Although the neocons are breathing new fire into the old surface level Cold War esp with Ukraine, that’s now just an added compound to todays worldwide mayhem of Terror, that could very well improve their bottom line a bit, offsetting any slumps in ‘invoking 9/11’, as people begin to get tired of this (of course they can always stoke the 9/11 fires again… literally). But there are so many ways they offset that, there is just so much US/NATO activity right now, with many interests other than geostrategy, and it all appears connected, dynamic, elastic to each other. Nuclear war isn’t war, it’s total destruction (or a ridiculous video game of ‘offense’ and ‘defense’ joysticks). The Powers don’t appear to be interested in that, certainly by any measurement of the Cold War. They seem to be interested in total domination, and their subservent industrial complexes could care less, so long as they are on the top tiers of the food chain.

      But, like Ron said, the neocons possess certain ‘lines of psychopathy. Among other deep pathological elements which men connected to power experience is a weird sense of omnipotence.’ What we are dealing with here are insane ‘gods’ with almost immeasurable resources(fiat money). ‘Nothing is certain’ indeed… but even still, history does tell a striking tale, and it certainly doesn’t suggeest nuclear war happening at least any time soon)

      • Jeff,

        I couldn’t agree more.
        “But the Cold War pales in comparison to the Terror War.” – Absolutely. I think they learned from the fall of Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union. I am sure they said: ‘For the next one we’ll come up with something permanent, based on abstracts and infinite perpetual wars.’ This time around there are no nations to defeat or take over. No borders. No identifiable and quantifiable military. ‘They’ are everywhere and anywhere. Their number may be 1000s or many millions.

        How can anyone declare a victory, an end, to a war ‘on terror’? Say: ‘Hey, today we wiped out the last terrorist, and today marks the end of was on terror.’

        So yes, far more dangerous, and certainly permanent.

  26. Sibel,

    I guess we are working our way up the pyramid here. So, in my humble opinion, these folks and other heads of state governments, are not near the peak. They are all actors in a bigger picture. Certainly those controlling the $$$$$ will be pulling a lot of strings. But who is pulling theirs? I have more questions than answers. Thanks for your questions and observations.

  27. Corylus says:

    Sibel, thank you for yet another insightful and moving podcast and thanks also to everyone for your comments. My time is limited so I can only just keep up with listening and reading, it’s a real education. Very disconcerting and unsettling in a positive way, definitely with transformative power. I agree that the podcast and blog should be kept to members only, I have long given up reading comments on open sites.
    Reading Ganser’s book on Gladio I’ve got as far as the Belgian massacres 1983-85, exactly the same pattern in every country in every year, the same tricks being used today, just more sophisticated. Are more people waking up to this? I dare to think so. Ideas have a way of transcending physical barriers, as in 100dth monkey syndrome, described by Lyall Watson and others.

  28. Charles Jackson says:

    Perhaps the newest member here and working to catch up. Retired military, bought the official story until enlightened by a couple several years ago that I’ve never been able to find and thank. Spent a dedicated year, to the exclusion of everything else, researching 911 and now do what that couple did for me – carry and give away a small packet w/DVDs and some printed material at every opportunity to any that show any real interest. Continue to research and explore the many rabbit trails that the path of truth uncovers and that’s how I found BFP. It is 530AM and I’ve not slept – had to finish Classified Woman and watched James and Sibel discuss Gladio. New rabbit trail: “what’s Gladio?” Watched James excellent presentation on Gladio 2 in Groningen. So much to learn…so much more to disseminate to the masses for I was once among those masses.

    • Welcome Charles.

      First comment, and with it you brought in an important real-life positive example: The couple leading to your own self-initiated research, then reaching that deep awareness/knowledge, and from there reaching to others.

      May I ask: What was your first reaction when you spoke with them? How would you characterize their approach?

      The reason I am asking: We learn from our successes and failures, and we learn from each others’ successes and failures. How do we overcome the prevalent cognitive dissonance? The resistance and refusal to even give the truth a chance?

      We are looking forward to your comments/analyses. Being a retired veteran you bring in real-life experiences, perspectives and examples, and help broaden ours …

      • Gerald Hines says:

        As I might add a snippit to expanding membership, this past weekend I hit pay dirt in an overlooked environment(or at least to me.). My awakening to 9/11 truly materialized out of my own conscience. Maybe you can retrieve something of value from Black Holes?, but it was a dead-end to me with the Pentagon. This enlightenment, like so many of BFP members & Corbett members set me in motion, that once you get ‘past yourself’, there IS no turning away. So for the past nearly 4yrs I have pursued ANY avenue in getting a handle on the depth of deceit. My results of passing information to others is typical as so many members have stated: force feeding leads almost nowhere. However, a name-drop, subtly can open doors, and this is proving more effective with each passing weekend. My wife has a small business on EBay where she garage-sales for dvd’s, and this is opening up a spectrum of folks we meet each weekend. 2nd-hand books, ( No Sibel, We haven’t run across The Lone Gladio or Classfied Woman, YET!) is a great place to spark up conversations with individuals at garage sales. And it’s been working! Ask my wife, she’s had to wait patiently while I discuss 9/11 offerings to individuals like me, stuck with questions involving 9/11. Thank you Sibel & all members!

        • Gerald,

          See, this is exactly what I am talking about. We put our heads together and come up with more ideas and approaches.

          How about this: Would you like me to send you a certain number of both books, and have you offer it on e-bay, and as part of the comment thread where it is displayed, you can utilize it as a ‘starter’?

          This is also what we’ve been looking for: for us to come up with ‘action’ plans. To concentrate not only on ‘problem statements’ but possible actions/solutions. Sure, some will prove to be useless/failure, some will be semi-success, and others may be successful. But we won’t know until we try.

          Gerald, I am willing to commit to sending a box, 6 of each, books. The cost is on me. You see if that helps, and then let us know. Let us try, and keep trying.

        • One more thing: I can also include a few BFP DVDs. Whatever topic you think is more effective …

          • Gerald Hines says:

            It’s remarkable how things happen. Just before opening BFP site today, I was signing off for a couple pkgs from one of our UPS delivery-women/men. I threw out of what he thought of PM Netanyahu’s speech to our Congress within the past hour or so. His answer: who’s that? Grrrrrrrrrr! So a quick explanation was laid down, but it ajard the door for me to press his opinion of the narrative of 9/11. He gave me the look of ‘deer in the headlights’! But I have gotten used to such actions. By throwing out the question of Building 7, I got a quizzeled look that effectively opened up a dialogue. Adding to that The Pentagon Line, and I saw I had struck a nerve. But I often wonder if my outwardly passion to inform might turn to bite me in my ass? What’s that term: No Pain, No Gain. (Or something on that line?) But my point was that I got this fellow to ‘Think’. Yes, he still walked back to his truck vocally repeating that he doesn’t want to believe our government was complacent or involved, but I know I felt my heart jump with his interest. Word of mouth, may be slow & tedious at times, but the positive outcome is undeniable.
            And YES, most defo I like your idea of listing your books with my wife’s eBay account. I will follow you up by email within this week and go from there! There are bound to be plenty of other avenues that members can mention. Thanks Sibel xxx

      • Romoshka says:

        Hmm..not sure what happened to my reply. Perhaps as I changed from real name to screen name I got kicked off. My reaction was interest…I heard them talking to a man about things I had not heard before. Being a cat in a former life I have an insatiable curiosity. They were giving away DVDs and printed documents and would not take money. I came home with 18 DVDs and 25 multi page documents. Multiple recommended books also lay about the table. They presented a laid back, almost professorial/60s hippie appearance but spoke with a calm conviction and certainly were aware on many levels and I heard them talk the Fed, false flag (a term unknown to me at that point) 911 and more that was lost on me. They had a table set up outside a tourist information center. I think the technique of being out there but just a bit out of place caused many to come investigate. Some left quickly upon discovering what they were doing but most stayed and talked. Some tried to trap them into petty arguments but they were both masters of controlling the situation.

    • CHARLES; We absolutely need your participation! It is of high value because it comes from grit, sweat, and a certain reality which most Americans do not understand. Whether you saw “action” or not is not that important. But, I’ll bet you knew a lot of soldiers whose knowledge stretched from sparse to deep concern regarding just who/how sends young soldiers into the face of death! I remember the words of a 60s anti-establishment song: “Somthin’s happenin’ here. What it is ain’t exactly clear. Ya better stop, listen, etc..”
      In the 60s, the Anti-war movement got a tremendous boost when ex-military people hooked up with us!! So, welcome, and please comment and ask questions–some good minds here..

    • arealjeffersonian says:


      From another veteran, welcome!

  29. Welcome Charles! I suggest reading Sibel’s The Lone Gladio to start. While reading it remember this: Often today, truth can only be told under the mask of fiction. I’m sure Sibel will point you to other video’s. Nice to have you with us.

  30. 344thBrother says:

    Glad to have you aboard Charles.
    Yeah The Lone Gladio. a must read. A great story and full of embedded information.
    Thank you for keeping the hope alive.

    “Give peace a chance” < Vietnam war chant
    "Give truth a chance" 911 truth chant.
    peace freedom truth justice
    is it so much to ask?

    • Dave,

      I got your special package. I’ll be brewing it after lunch.

      Greatly appreciated!

      • 344thBrother says:

        My pleasure Sibel. I hope you like it. I’ve been drinking it and it does the job.

        • Delicious! And I see your ‘point’ in grinding it finer to achieve that ‘needed’ intensity.

          So Dave, will you be volunteering for a chapter?

          • 344thBrother says:

            I’m happy you like the coffee. You know there’s an espresso grind and a “Turkish grind”. If I knew whether you had a espresso maker, I would have used the Turkish grind, just because, but even espresso grind tends to be a little fine for regular drip machines. Let me know what kind of machine you have and next time I make a batch, I’ll take that into consideration.

            I’m volunteer for the NW chapter if that’s what you meant.

            PS. RE getting the word out. A short list of your favorite DVD’s and Youtube Videos that are already out in the public domain that we can copy and hand out would be great Sibel. This avoids the problems of overzealous , well meaning folks copying things that you want to keep proprietary while still giving you and BFP some exposure. It might give your book sales a tick upwards as well.

            Back when I made numerous copies of DVD’s and spread them widely at my own expense, (which I am totally willing to do again in support of this forum), I found one slick way to get them out there with minimum effort and some interesting local effects.

            I live in a small town in an area with a number of other small towns nearby. Total population in about a 50 mile radius less than 4,000. So, folks know each other by sight if not always by name. So, I would make a slew of 2 or 3 different videos … 911 truth, anti-NWO/Police State, Freedom to Fascism etc. . different ones depending on how many I’d sent out and my mood of the week. I’d put a generic title like FREE 911 Truth on the sleeves in bold marker.

            I would put them in sleeves with “Deception Dollars” peeking out of the middle of the DVD’s and usually some hand-outs and just anonymously pin them to bulletin boards around the area. No fan fare. I also pinned up deception dollars because folks just love them and they sort of look like real money so they work as a lure. At one time I had 4 Trillion bucks in Deception dollars. : P

            Anyway, after a couple months of this back when basically NOBODY knew anything about 911 truth, and a couple hundred dollars in DVD’s later, I started to overhear people talking to each other about not only the topics of the DVD’s but “I wonder who’s putting those all over the place?” So, as a marketing plan it wasn’t bad, it cost me money, but the fact that my identity became a bit of a mystery and opened conversations about the subject matter, I saw as a success.

            Another very successful thing I did was give a pile of DVD’s out to other people to disseminate. One friend wound up sending a stack of different ones to 2 different local radio talk show hosts who do a two hour info and talk show on Sundays on “KMUD radio”. (The Mud 91.3 FM Garberville). They were uninformed, but after watching the DVDs, they started including that information into their shows on a regular basis. And I got to do a 1.5 hour rant on their show on the 10th anniversary of 911. So, that was lots of fun for me. Effective too.

            I used to also rant in bars, but I found that if I had one too many, (easy to do since I rarely drink at all) I’d get emotional and people’s eyes would get big and they would start backing away from me, so I stopped that. : )

            food for thought

  31. 911 Neocon coup . In consideration of media/news/psyop Control factors in Media. Sibel. You had McPhearson deliver his DVD thru knowledge of OG control factor networks, so that proper identification provided carte blanch broadcast over totality of media. This has been a conjecture of mine ever since the deception became apparent. How to ‘alert’ enough population at any one time to effect transformative change. My question is, did you formulate that certainty of action on anything known? On a ‘known-known?”
    Does – or up until the time of publication – did, such a practicality exist to your knowledge?

    • Remo,

      During our NSWBC activism page we had a semi-reliable mechanism in place, but then again, it was for the members (150-175 of us). This is an important point to consider; for all of us here @ BFP community. The other day, my husband and I were discussing the ‘what if’ scenario (for me, ‘the soon-to-come scenario’): What would we do if we wake up one morning to find out that our BFP site/FB pages/Twitter/ISP/etc have all been taken down? How do we go about alerting our community, and network? Let’s say we have a member in NZ or AU or Slovenia, who is willing to quickly mirror a site, with our site content transferred there, and go live …

      What I’m trying to say: Yes, we need to have the alert system you mentioned. We need to have some contingency plan in place for the scenario I brought up. On the other hand, how could we do it online, on this site/forum, where ‘they’ are watching/reading/listening? The last thing we want: giving ‘them’ a heads up. The dilemma.

      • Unless they take down the entire Internet, email should still work. You could have a trusted friend (maybe even an imaginary friend, so to speak) establish a contingency email account, and use it to send all active members the IP address of the mirror site should the regular BFP site be taken down. Using the IP address would bypass domestic name servers which might be blocking the alternate domain.

        There’s nothing “they” could do to preempt this other than shutting down the email accounts of all members simultaneously with taking down BFP. If we find ourselves in THAT kind of dystopian situation, the time for words is over anyway.

        • “What would we do if we wake up one morning to find out that our BFP site/FB pages/Twitter/ISP/etc have all been taken down?” –
          my level of IT precludes opinion on method ; but I agree with your need, and agree it wouldn’t be discussed here.
          Knarf . Power . NEOCON’s are monopolists .. Corporate, fascist, monopolists pretending multi-choice/freedom La La while identifying all dissent in control of the narrative. 911 is an inside job. That is a certainty awaiting transformation into licit consciousness. Its funny to think 911 has given the neocon a totalitarian ‘power’;
          just as the Truth of 911 completely and irrevocably takes that power away..
          That’s why they fight so dirty.

      • I’m wondering about the notion of all of us “prepping” for things to come. I would start NOW. If the grid shuts down in certain areas, etc. Re: BFP/commenters/internet I don’t know what to say other than we should assume heavy stuff coming.

        • Ron, it happened to me. In 2009, two days before my deposition (I was subpoenaed by court in Krikorian case, and Bruce Fein was the attorney for the other side), for which I violated DOJ order saying ‘I was not allowed to give deposition,’ my site was taken down, and both my g-mail and aol mail accounts were suspended. With BlogSpot the only excuse they gave (later, two days after deposition when the site was restored) was: ‘We had anonymous complaints about your site.’

          • I’ve had a Amazon account for at least 15 years. A few days ago I was setting up a series of orders to ship “Classified Woman” to various people, and in the process part of my Amazon profile just went “poof”. My billing address and payment methods simply vanished. I had to re-enter all the information, and then the next day I was notified the orders were rejected because Amazon said my information “could not be verified”. I spent over an hour on chat with a couple of Amazon people who both looked at my account and said something like, “Oh yes, I see….” See what? They wouldn’t say. Anyway, they said it might all work later this week, please try again. 15 years and never a glitch, now this. What are the odds?

            Right now I have about $1100.00 in orders shipped with charges outstanding on my Amazon Visa. Until the book orders go through, they ain’t getting a penny.

          • Another pattern that has been reported to me involving Amazon:

            To this date at least 35 reviews have been blocked from being published, even though those were from verified amazon purchasers who have gotten the book via Amazon. 35+ is the number of people who have contacted me to let me know. Who knows, the number may be much higher.

          • With so many people now completely relying on social networks for communication (FB/Twitter/etc.), e-mail, site/forums/blogs, the balance has been shifting the other way.

            Look at the partnership between the deep state/gov and the heads of these mega corporations (Amazon, Google, Facebook …). In the past, with coups, they implemented curfews. Today, they’d do it with internet curfew (removal of access). If they can so easily go to any ISP, show handwritten FBI notes (FBI National Security Letters), and get the ISP hand over everything to them, who says they wouldn’t take the next step, and have the ISPs kick out and or block targets? Of many dozens of ISPs out there only one, just one, ISP has refused compliance to date. Only one. Peter B and I interviewed him a few years back. And what does that tell us?

            My take: sure, let’s take all the advantages and utilize the net tools, but also, be prepared, as much as humanly possible, if ‘that’ day comes. This was one of the main reasons in one of our previous episodes’ discussion I mentioned the dream of BFP community establishing regional/local chapters. Of course we don’t have the numbers, currently, but at least we can discuss establishing East Coast/West Coast/North/South points of contacts. I’ll go first: I’ll be the first member of US North West Chapter. What do you think?

          • Frederic Jacobs at bellingcat reported Internet peering connecting Northern Syria with Turkey as taken off line as Turkish soldiers entered Syria heading to the Suleyman Shah Tomb [Control the Internet, Control the Narrative February 22, 2015]

          • Welcome to the new era information warfare.

          • Sibel: That must have been a shock or did you expect it!?? The technology at the fingertips of the psychopaths of the deep state–we must assume, unfortunately, that they can do things that will stun us!! Everything from drones the size of a housefly to software that soon may come from quantum computers, etc Soon it will be, technologically speaking, way, way beyond digital – 0s and 1s. Hell, I’ll get off topic talking like this. Main point being: expect the unexpected and function like the warrior you are.

          • Sibel, on a sidebar, I know we are staying away from links, but you brought up an important case, that I’d like to post a few direct links for readers to learn more about it if unfamiliar with the ISP NSL.

            BFP Interview

            CCC Presentation

            And as far as the centralized internet filtering who sees what, we are seeing emerging mesh networks, fostering peer to peer completely decentralized internet, springing up around the globe. One community at a time. So we can combat technological censorship with innovative technology (actually quite old tech for that matter) that actually drives telecomm in the same direction as we(I speak for at least myself here) wish to drive everything else… decentralization. So another area of hope seen from the eyes of this US North Chapter member.

          • Jeff,

            Thank you for the links!

            ‘North Chapter’: Now we’ve got 3 areas, people. The wheels have been turning in my head on this and ‘possible’ possibilities. We will, together, figure out, the next step, after we add a couple of more areas/chapters.

  32. Merhaba, Sibel.

    Thank you and all here for a riveting podcast and for the compelling reading in these comments.

    I am past the stage of experiencing cognitive dissonance on matters such as this and am glad for it but I must also express a kind of despair at the extent of the ‘cancer’ and ‘parasite’ we have living within the global ‘us’. I hope and lately, I pray, that the shining of truth and awareness on all historic events will cause pressure to build within the cyst and force its puss to be expunged.

    Following the earlier medical analogies of the deep state… from wiki; a CYST is defined as;

    ‘… a cluster of cells that have grouped together to form a sac […] the distinguishing aspect of a cyst is the cells forming the “shell” of such a sac, being distinctly abnormal (in both appearance and behaviour) when compared to all surrounding cells for that given location.’

    Sibel, I was touched to hear of the traumatic and staged events which were the prequel to the Turkish coup of 1980. This is all news to me. But your comparison between those events and the 911 staged event seems spot on. You have lived through so much… Again I am honoured to be a part of this podcast discussion as we all try to teach ourselves out of this mess.

  33. Suggestion for a future article: What’s the deep state afraid of?

    Why devote so many resources to capturing all our communications? Why the insistence on back doors and the opposition to strong encryption? We know the “anti-terrorism” excuse is a sham, so what the heck are they after?

    • I’ll “second” that, Knarf!

      • Corylus says:

        I’ll “third” that!

        We very few must be an incredible prize they are trying to capture, sparing no effort or expense (mostly our money), otherwise, why would they bother?. There is more to this than just power, I’m suggesting a psycho-spiritual dimension; which, incidentally, is present in all of us and has the potential to erupt. While this may not be a practical contribution in the present context, I think it is nevertheless important to be aware of it – awareness and equanimity, as ChuCulainn (I think) put it.

      • 344thBrother says:

        Knarf: “What’s the deep state afraid of?” Great idea!

    • John Phillips says:

      Knarf: “Why the insistence on back doors and the opposition to strong encryption? We know the “anti-terrorism” excuse is a sham, so what the heck are they after?”

      You can bet their not syphoning up all this data on us to use on a rainy day. The government, Google, corporations use this data in many ways: To see how well the propaganda is working by monitoring all the email, blog traffic, and web sites; it’s used for marketing purposes to sell us what we don’t want or need; to produce media with a message of “there ain’t nothing you can do about what we are doing;” to keep fine-tuning the fear; to record data on who we are for future use; to see our reactions to the government’s crackdown on Occupy Wall Street…just to name several.

      So, it’s used every day to keep us afraid, uniformed, to sell us stuff, and to know everything about everyone for whatever use they have for use in the future.

      I guess I’m in the SW chapter since I live in the State that is home to three nuclear weapons labs and the Trinity site.

      Reading the comments…I find it interesting that so many are coming to understand what I have known since my childhood, and I’m pretty old. I grew up with people whose parents worked for “the labs,” and have friends in the military. With that perspective and knowledge going back 50 years, one cannot help but to understand how our government has always worked!
      Best Regards

      • John, the more resources they’re devoting to monitoring us, the easier it is for the devious to monkey-wrench the hell out of them. Which I hope is already happening on a massive scale. I won’t describe the method in detail, other than to say it involves a hex editor and any source of non-specific data. Those are the basic ingredients, but there are an infinite number of recipes, all likely to consume teraflops of processing power, fruitlessly.

        The cyber-surveillance state is a massive, gaping maw. We can manufacture a virtually infinite amount of encrypted garbage to throw into that maw, until it chokes to death.

        I spent a couple of days in Los Alamos a couple of years ago. I looked at homes for sale there and in nearby White Rock. Really liked the vibe in Los Alamos. got the impression there is essentially zero crime there. I was thinking of retiring there, but the altitude and dryness played havoc with my sinuses and lungs. I may still end up somewhere in NM, in the mountains but a bit lower. Anyway, at present I’m near the Old Pueblo in your neighboring state just to the west.

  34. To Sibel, March 3, 2015 at 12:05 am

    If the deep state is trying to sabotage Classified Woman on Amazon, they are failing spectacularly. I’m inclined to think there must be someone working for Amazon who is ex-FBI, or maybe has family which is FBI, or maybe a Turk. Whoever it is has enough system access to deep six some reviews and harass customers who order your book in bulk, apparently, but that seems to be the extent of it, based on what I know now. 247 five star reviews is among the best I’ve seen for ANYTHING. Anyway, if this creep aborts my book orders again, I’m going to demand an investigation. Amazon needs that $1100.00 much more than I need a spotless credit record, because I’ve been essentially cash-only for many years. I only use credit cards for convenience, and never carry a balance.

    This moral rot in the deep state has metastasized into the financial system, I believe. Year before last I was reviewing statements from an online broker, and discovered someone was systematically draining $1400/month from one of my accounts. All I had to go on was the account number which was receiving the funds. Through some “social engineering” I was able to discover the account belonged to the mother of an employee, but the person on the phone clammed up before giving me a name. They asked me if I would forget the whole thing if the funds were restored. NO. I initiated the action to pull every account, every penny. They asked what could they do to keep my business. Simple, I said – give me the name and address of the thief so I can deal with that person directly and personally. No? Then I’m gone. Confidentiality is not for thieves.

    Yes, I am not a “nice” guy. I freely admit I am a flint-edged SOB. But I am honest and I demand honesty of others

    I’m in for the Southwest Chapter, Sibel.

    • FYI, I’m not planning to stiff Amazon and keep the goods which are in transit. Unless the books have shipped before the goods arrive, I will refuse delivery. That will undoubtedly cause them to close my account and ding my credit record, but I don’t care.

    • Knarf,

      The review censorship, so far, involves ‘The Lone Gladio.’

      ‘Confidentiality’: I’m with you on that. Add to that the gov’s limitless open-ended access privileges … and what confidentiality?!

      ‘I’m in for the Southwest Chapter, Sibel.’- Perfect. Now we have NW & SW. It is a great start. Once we have a few more regions covered, then, we’ll start talking about the following small steps. By the way: considering the global implications of our subjects and objectives, why not other countries as well?

  35. treefrog12 says:

    My “camel’s nose under the tent” moment came when I heard a Richard Gage interview on KGO radio (~2006). The program host (Cristine Craft, maybe?) clearly did not agree with Gage’s conclusions, but it turned my world upside down!

  36. 344thBrother says:

    I hope I didn’t take this out of context, incorrectly.
    Sibel you wrote this about nuclear weapons use: “economically, $$$$$$-wise, it does not make sense. On the other, floating the threat, as they did for almost half a century during the Cold War, to create tension & fear, does make sense.”

    I took this as an answer to my question as well regarding the weapons that are missing from Texas and Minot AFB in North Dakota. Since these episodes were kept pretty quiet in the lame stream blabber and they had a very short shelf life too, perhaps these episodes were “floating the threat” to those of us who pay attention to such things. Sort of like waving a gun around to get people to back off.

    As you say, dollar wise it doesn’t make sense to set off a megaton device in the USA unless they really want to set off armageddon. I don’t think they want that either, but I guess it makes them feel like they’ve got bigger dicks when they’ve got an ultimate weapon or 2 lying around. That would make sense since it appears that all these neo-cons are probably “organly challenged”.

    peace and don’t let the bastards grind you down!

  37. 344thBrother says:

    I mean, seriously, just look at Wolfowitz or Kissinger or Perle or Rumsfeld or Dubya for that matter.

    I rest my case.
    : )

    • Dave,

      Right. And that’s why our usage of the word ‘psychopath’ is based on facts/realism, and not for the purpose of hyperbole or broad-brush categorization. It is the common denominator among them. The same applies to the CIA criteria in recruiting ‘operatives.’ That psych state, personality, is a must have to carryout their operations. Some people may try to justify programming, being under orders, etc. But when it comes down to it, the entities who can kidnap, detain, torture, murder, without a flinch, have that one element in common.

  38. 344thBrother says:

    NW Chapter checking in here!

    Sibel you wrote:
    “in one of our previous episodes’ discussion I mentioned the dream of BFP community establishing regional/local chapters. Of course we don’t have the numbers, currently, but at least we can discuss establishing East Coast/West Coast/North/South points of contacts. I’ll go first: I’ll be the first member of US North West Chapter. What do you think? -”

    I love it! This will sound overly simple and obvious to a lot of people, but it does work…
    What the Militia does to help keep emergency communications going (It’s also done in volunteer fire departments such as mine)… You get a list of contacts and break them up in some manner then each member selects 3 or so contact names from the list. It would be a good idea for at least one of the contacts on each list to be from a different zone. email, phone and cell #s and mailing/physical addresses can be shared among individuals without letting everyone else know them (making it harder to vacuum up a list of the information). When the site or the internet goes down, everyone starts calling and if necessary, snail mailing down their list until they’ve reached all their contacts. Those then start with their list.

    If EVERYTHING goes down, then about all you can do is make physical contact with members near you.

    Exponentially *3 9 27 81…* it’s pretty fast and secure since each contact only has 3 other people’s information. Obviously this doesn’t stop any member from doing mass notifications if the internet still allows. Anyway, I volunteer. And lets hope it doesn’t come to this but… hello “net neutrality” read that net neutering.


    • Dave, you are number 3 for our NW Chapter;-) I signed up for the slot, and then, had my husband pledge (so he became #2). By the way, the numbers don’t refer to ranking!;-)

      This small step can have several applications. One, what you just mentioned.

      Two: I am thinking … once we have the numbers, we may go about having our first casual meeting somewhere in the ‘middle.’ For that, we will have to build our size (just a bit). With the list you mentioned we will also have subgroups based on expertise/interest: technology, other logistics, communication, ‘veterans,’ etc.

      I don’t want to get ahead of myself here, but as I have said before, the wheels are turning. Just like the first three-four episodes, we will call it our own ‘little experimentation.’ It may work beautifully, or it may not. We are not going to get into it starry-eyes or with humongous expectations (which inevitably leads to some major let down or disillusionment)_.

      So, first thing first: have our initial broad chapters in place. After that, we’ll come up with a way to manage/organize our list and internal communications towards the following step.

      • SIBEL: I promised myself when I hit 70(4 years ago)–no more groups, organizing etc. Plus my limited income, etc. But I would be very interested in in some Western location meeting whereby we actually talk to one another for at least one full day–it takes time for human group adjustment/processing, etc. Perhaps it could be done semi-annually. I live about an hr. from Bay Area in Ca. and getting to Oregon should not be a problem. For ALL BFP COMMENTERS ON THIS THREAD, I cannot emphasize enough how actual face to face contact takes things to another dimension. This pecking away at a keyboard is valuable–but, the real deal is of a higher order.

        • Ron, I made the same promise after NSWBC. The last thing I want to deal with in this life: Formally structured organizations, Organizational hierarchy, organizational bickering … I know many of you share this same sentiment. What I have in mind (still it is in ‘shaping’ stage’): putting a few contingency plans (‘just in case’ cases), and have what you just mentioned in this comment. It will be fairly easy to have ‘one’ somewhere between the Bay area & Central Oregon: it won’t take more than 4-5 hours drive from either points (C. Oregon, the valley, Bay area).

          • steven hobbs says:

            Sibel, “The last thing I want to deal with in this life: Formally structured organizations, Organizational hierarchy, organizational bickering …” You sound an anarchist. spitting her truth.

            Hierarchy isn’t always bad, as for example a flute solo. Nevertheless, a little cacophony occasionally goes well with harmony. Keeps things awake. Anarchists (not necessarily anarcho-nihilists) seek non-hierarchical organization. Sometimes chaos leads to harmony, or to-other. Does it not? This rhetorical question is different from “What is an anarchist?”

  39. 344thBrother says:

    I’m happy with #3 in such good company. : )

    If it comes to a casual meeting somewhere central, lets think about making it virtual meeting friendly too. Increases participation and would allow me to attend without riding 1000 miles or more on my (Not all that touring friendly) motorcycle. Having said that, I’m not ruling out a road trip.


    • #4 here for the NW chapter. Maybe 2.5 hrs from Sibel but down in the Valley. Rain? check. Local food and farms? check. Backyard chickens allowed? check. Truly awake people? No, not very many, but workin’ on it.

      • This is interesting. I wonder what our (BFP Community) geographic distribution in the US looks like … So far we have heard back from NW/SW and one ‘North.’

        • ‘North’ – North Midwest – Milwaukee area, albeit with extremely limited resources (currently one of the 20%), but hopefully not for too long. Glad to be here regardless, and willing to help however I can.

          • Jeff, good to know. I don’t think having ‘resources’ or not is going to matter what-so-ever. Just arm yourself with your knowledge, conviction, resolve, courage … and you are set to go! This applies to all of us.

          • Arming with ‘knowledge, conviction, resolve, courage’ – great advice, Sibel. I reverberate this sentiment, completely.

          • Hey Jeff,

            I am in Northern Wisconsin and grew up in Milwaukee. Do you ever vacation up here? I’m itching to find like minds as they are in short supply around here to discuss topics like these over a camp fire and some beer.

          • Hi Dave, although the idea of fire, beers and important conversation sounds absolutely fantastic, I haven’t been up north around beautiful Lake Superior in quite a while. I’m not able to travel anytime soon, but when it happens, I will message this post so you and others know, and perhaps then some of us can meet for a cup of coffee with folks of like mind. With that said, I’d say hang tight. Hopefully some more ‘North’ members surface and we can build a network here, and whatever shape that ultimately takes at BFP, we may be able to find people more locally than not.

            And with that said, with or without BFP, I’ve been thinking and reading here and there of ways to find people locally, and one way I may do it in my small town/area is by starting a book club. Not only would this allow me and others to surf similar brainwaves, but would educate. Local, baby steps. But this is how I believe any sort of substantial change can come about anyways, ground up, small important, potent moves.

            ‘Short supply’, tell me about it. I think they are around me… but we don’t know each other yet. Perhaps something like a book club may help bring us out of the woodwork.

  40. The albatross set sou-west over the great pacific, only to encounter human mindlessness and casual rage, ending up hung about our collective neck.
    Two points. The Albatross flew Free for about a trillion years [poetic licence] expressing every aspect of the true Freedom of Future : but, seeing the boat and unknowing of the nature of humanity so cursed, floated the air ever closer to the crazed sailors stuck in their stink of homo-militarism, bored for a kill ; and, not heeding warnings of instinct but…who knows…maybe part of…we can only guess; but died there. Arrow thru the heart.
    Two parts. Freedom and death. We have been brutalized by these barstards a long time, enough.
    The stars we follow are in the non-secular heavens, not our own eyes. That is understood.
    If there is category for artist, if I can be a help, then I offer it .

  41. DenStendigeResen says:

    I don’t suppose there’s much hope of forming a Norwegian chapter, but I’ll ask anyway.
    Before the potential (likely) Big Day, let me take one more opportunity to say that I really appreciate this community of People Who Give a Damn. And thanks for the link, Jeff!

  42. Hello everyone,
    Are you ready? Coming Up later today: “The 1953 Coup in Iran, Project AJAX, CIA, False Flag Operations & the Illusion of Home-front Sanctity”

  43. False Flag Operations ? Yes & No.
    – Bush & Co. did use the attacks on 9/11 to implement their agenda: E.g. waging war in the Middle East. The Bush administration wanted to wage war from day 1 they came into office. And they did consider a number of options. One of them was: Painting a US plane in UN colors and flying it over Iraq waiting to shot down by Saddam Hussein. That certainly would be a good excuse to invade Iraq.
    – The 9/11 attacks provided a good excuse to invade Afghanistan & Iraq. But the Bush administration was already planning an invasion into Afghanistan in the months BEFORE 9/11. BUT !!! Bush & Co. weren’t IMO aware that Osama Bin Laden was planning that attack. The CIA knew that there would come an attack but they didn’t know WHEN. On top of that the CIA surpressed the info regarding this attack. (think Richard Clark, Tenet, Cofer Black, Paul Thompson).
    – BUT !!! There’re things that are out of the control of the “Powers that be”. The crisis in the US (2008, 2009) certainly weren’t part of the plans of Bush & Co.

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