BFP Roundtable Video- Graham’s So-Called Smoking Gun, Saudi Arabia & Yemen

In this introductory episode Sibel Edmonds, Guillermo Jimenez and Pearse Redmond introduce the new BFP Roundtable Season and discuss new ideas and possibilities for coming shows. From there the panel quickly moves on to its first topic: Senator Graham’s so-called smoking gun (The infamous redacted 28-pages), the possible reasons for and timing of this old pickled issue’s circulation, in conjunction with the Saudi Arabia-Yemen angle and connections. The panel heatedly debunks more than one widespread spin used by mainstream and pseudo-alternative media outlets in reporting Saudi Arabia’s assault on Yemen with the carefully-designed Iran element. And finally, the panel invites BFP activist community members to join and expand this discussion and provide their ideas for coming roundtable discussion topics.

*This is our introductory episode for the new BFP Roundtable season. The coming episodes will be here at Boiling Frogs Post, and will be available only to BFP activist members. You can subscribe and join our community here.

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  1. Joseph Davis says:

    Y’all should get Ryan Dawson on to discuss the 28 pages of the JIS report. More details:

  2. Jon Gold says:

    The reason why there is such a push right now to get the 28 redacted pages released is because in December 2013, a court “struck down an earlier decision that found Saudi Arabia immune from lawsuits. The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said it’s in the “interests of justice” to allow them to proceed.” That being said, the families have been calling for the release of the 28 redacted pages since the day it was announced that they would be classified. In late 2006, the September Eleventh Advocates (The Jersey Girls) released a petition calling for pertinent 9/11 information to be released, including the 28 redacted pages. We managed to get them 17k signatures, and nothing was done.

    The 9/11 Commission apparently looked into the allegations within the 28 redacted pages, and found that they were lacking. In other words, the information in the 28 redacted page has been “debunked” by the “definitive account of 9/11” (the 9/11 Commission’s report). So… why are there contradictions between the reports? If there’s nothing to the 28 redacted pages, why not release them?

    Why the contradictions… because Philip Zelikow refused half of the interview requests for Saudi investigators. He made it difficult for people to gain access to the 28 redacted pages, and as a result, Dana Leseman went through a “back channel” to gain access to them, and Philip Zelikow fired her for it. She helped to research the material IN those pages because she came from the Joint Congressional Inquiry. Philip Zelikow and Dieter Snell took part in a “late night editing session” to remove Saudi support from the 9/11 Report, against the wishes of the staffers who worked on that aspect of the report, and relegated the information into footnotes in the back of the book.

    So, this contradiction is another example of how compromised and corrupt the 9/11 Commission was. Something ALWAYS important to point out WHENEVER you get the chance.

    The families want the 28 redacted pages so they can use them in a court room. Any time 9/11 has made it into a court room, information that was never available before usually comes out and sometimes it’s incriminating information (look at the Moussaoui sentencing phase). Aren’t we supposed to be supporting the 9/11 Family Members? I thought that’s something we should ALWAYS be doing with regards to the families seeking truth, accountability and justice.

    Here’s a recent letter to the editor from the September Eleventh Advocates calling for the release of the pages (Patty Casazza is the only one listed, but both Mindy Kleinberg and Lorie Van Auken also wrote that, but because they wrote a recent letter to the editor, and you can only write one every 6 months, so they took out their names).

    Are the 28 redacted pages the “answer” to 9/11? HELL NO!!!

    Here is my interview with Senator Bob Graham…

    Here is my interview with reporter Dan Christensen regarding the Sarasota 9/11 story…

    With regards to the classification of 9/11 information, the National Archives has yet to release all of the documentation from the 9/11 Commission, and MANY of the the documents that they have released, are greatly redacted.–abc-news-topstories.html

    • Jon,

      “Aren’t we supposed to be supporting the 9/11 Family Members? I thought that’s something we should ALWAYS be doing with regards to the families seeking truth, accountability and justice…”- We are fighting for the ‘truth.’ We are not in the business of supporting any parties. I have not heard/seen major activist family members since … 2006. We must distinguish and differentiate between private causes for court lawsuits (for monetary compensation of ‘individuals’) and the macro truth for the truth itself.

      I think it is very nice and noble for you to do those interviews and chase National Archives/Graham. Best of luck- to you all the family members. What we are discussing here, what we are doing here, is going for a much bigger/broader/macro truth.


      PS- For the fututre I appreciate if you refrain from posting links promoting a particular action item/group/etc.

      • Jon Gold says:

        The September Eleventh Advocates (the Jersey Girls) have released several press releases since 2006 calling into question this, that, and the other thing regarding 9/11. They helped you in 2011 with regards to Behrooz Sarshar if memory serves. It is very difficult for the family members to do this. As Patty Casazza said “every time we look at the information on 9/11, we die a little.” That’s one of the reasons I do my best to do “the work” for them so they don’t have to as much. The 28 redacted pages could be a “foot in the door” if used by activists properly. In my opinion, they shouldn’t be discarded, or people shouldn’t be discouraging people from calling for their release. I believe there are individuals named within those pages (like Bandar) that have close associations with people in America. Like the Bush family, like George Tenet, etc… and so on. I think that is why they have fought to keep them classified. Maybe I’m wrong.

        Sorry for the links.

        • Jon,

          I am not saying you are wrong. Let me give you a parallel example: You have a criminal investigation and court process on a murder case. The act of murder has been committed through two hit-men (hired). What happens when the entire police investigation and court process focus on the identities of the hit-men, their background, and how they committed the act (murder), and disregard, exclude, any facts pertaining to the actual murder mastermind (The one with the clear intent, the one who planned based on his intent, the one who found and paid the hit-men, the one who is the only/ultimate beneficiary of the hit)?

          Were many of the supposed hijackers Saudis? Yes. Were high-level Saudi officials keys in the murder? Yes. They were the intermediaries (when the mastermind murderer from the above case keeps his hands clean by leaving the hiring and leg work/some logistics to his intermediary men).

          What Graham is doing (completely supported by the masterminds) is treating the Saudis as the mastermind of the terror event, and the US government as a reluctant witness who doesn’t want to get into some hot waters with its Saudi pals: Saudis did it, they were the ultimate terrorists, and US, due to its diplomatic relations/ties wants to cover this up and let them go). And this is completely false.

          Further, when you look at the timing of this revival (28-page & Graham), and how our imperialist gov has been pressuring/forcing Saudi Arabia to engage in its proxy war, you see that you end up serving ‘their’ purpose albeit with all good intentions.

          As a side note, when we discuss/consider actors from other nations with involvement (or even alleged involvement) in 9/11, we cannot disregard Israel. What happened to those dancing Israeli film crew who were with/following the supposed hijackers for months? Where are the documents and 9/11 commission’s so-called findings on those possibly key actors? If you want to be objective in focusing solely on the patsies and intermediaries, then, you should widen your scope and include those actors as well (despite your sensitivity when it comes to Israel)- just my own humble suggestion.

          • Jon Gold says:

            My “sensitivity” when it comes to Israel? Sibel, I have promoted more information pertaining to Israel than most people in the 9/11 Truth Movement. In 2010, when Cindy Sheehan and I were doing the “Sizzlin’ Summer Protests” outside of the White House, and Netanyahu came for a visit, I held a sign that said “Netancuckoo said Israel was good for Israel on 9/11 and in 2008.” There’s a famous picture of me standing outside the Israeli consulate with a sign that says “I AM A JEW. STOP KILLING BABIES IN GAZA.” I was the first one to ever bring up Israel on I’ve made movies that have footage no one else has ever promoted regarding the Israel Art Students, and Urban Moving Systems. The “dancing Israelis” were arrested, and let go, and tried to sue the U.S. for the treatment they received in custody and nothing ever came of that. Dominick Suter fled the U.S. to Israel in the days after 9/11. Why wasn’t he brought back for questioning? There are still Israeli art students operating in this country according to a 2010 report. Why is that allowed? There is a myth that was created about me saying that I oppose looking into Israel or that I have a “sensitivity” when it comes to Israel. Using my religion (Judaism) to create this narrative. I am VERY surprised to hear you even suggest that. 9/11 was a collaborative effort between countries from what I can see (though I truthfully don’t know what happened on 9/11 or who was ultimately responsible). I look at 9/11 as a crime and not an act of war, and as with every crime, there are suspects for that crime. I believe elements within our Government and other Governments have MORE THAN EARNED the title of suspect for the crime of 9/11. Truth be told, Israel didn’t need to be involved at all when you consider how many pro-Israeli individuals were within the Bush Administration. As for treating the 28 redacted pages as if they are the end all be all of 9/11, I agree, and have vehemently spoke out against that notion.

          • “Truth be told, Israel didn’t need to be involved at all when you consider how many pro-Israeli individuals were within the Bush Administration.’_ Then, on this, you and I agree.

        • steven hobbs says:

          Hi Jon,
          Yep Bush I & II, have major funders in Israel and Saudi Arabia.

          “surprised to hear you even suggest that. 9/11 was a collaborative effort between countries.” — A more distant perspective, one that’s more global and historical is useful, as you seem to suggest. A deep state event requires plausible deniability for those behind the curtain. What easier way for decision makers to gain impunity than to have others’ state actors to do dirty work. Shall we call Bushs’ prostitutes? Non-US-state actors in 911 serves numerous purposes: 1) through off a thorough investigation off course [missing pages another rabbit hole]; 2) decrease leaks; 3) provides further obfuscation and talking points.

          911 commissioner Bob Kerry states that it was a 30 year conspiracy, check YouTube. That’s a most interesting, seemingly candid, statement at a moment of his apparent vulnerability. Reminds of USS Liberty. Considering the twin towers construction, 30 years might be just right for prelude to destruction. DS actors have the privilege and opportunity to think decades of strategy, passing down from one generation of owners to another. Or, at least that’s my guess.

          • steven hobbs says:

            Maybe Remo said, that ‘intelligence’ agencies from around the world know twas inside job. Seems plausible that multiple secretive actors were involved, Saudi, Israeli, Pakistani, and a “trusted” home team.

            This is interesting regarding US-Saudi alliance, “..The oil weapon strategy is crushing OPEC’s cartel-like capacity to control global oil prices, instead consolidating that leverage under the US-Saudi alliance. It is also wiping out regional oil exporter profits.. US-Saudi oil strategy is also accelerating the geopolitical fracturing of the region..feeds into the Balkanisation of the Middle East along ethnic and sectarian lines, an outcome that happens to fit scenarios long-explored by US Army defense planners..”

  3. chuck70 says:

    Hi Guys,
    I tried to download this video, but it wasn’t possible. Is it protected?
    All the best.

  4. Dennis says:

    Thanks to the three of you for this new series. I’m sitting here laughing still – after you, Sibel, exploded in your own inimitable dynamic way. I love it when you light up with such insight. Forget the 28 pages – I agree completely about what you said regarding the US blackmailing Middle Eastern countries to continue pushing in ways that are uncomfortable to be coming from the US government. You hit the nail on the head! My mind immediately jumped back in time to John Perkins’ “Confessions of An Economic Hit Man”. This looks like the new updated version, like Gladio B. I wondered what form it had been taking, and I think you found it. I look forward to coming round table’s. Thank you all for getting this started!

    • Dennis,

      As always, your encouraging and kind words are greatly appreciated (and needed since I am so NOT comfortable when it comes to appearing in videos).

      • 344thBrother says:

        I too really enjoyed the BFP Roundtable format. It’s funny that you’re uncomfortable doing videos because you appear to be such a natural at it. You’re animated, funny, incisive, informed, fun to watch, all the things that a great commentator should be. Please break out the tin foil hat soon I will enjoy that as well.

        On topic: It seems obvious to me that whenever some major policy enactment or change or big event happens it’s always about profiting in many different ways.

        911: Limited hangout, get people thinking something’s going to actually happen that’s related to truth. Yeah right.

        Saudi Arabia: Blackmail. “You keep your mouth shut or else we’ll release those 28 pages!”

        The rest of the M.E.: “You ain’t seen nothing yet! So hunker down and shut your mouths too.”

        Israel: “We’ve still got your back so carry on and keep blowing stuff up! You’re the victim!”

        Congress: “Here, we’ll take some heat off of you.”

        Obomber, Clinton, McCain et al. “You get some air conditioning too!”

        Basically all that plus a lot of stuff I can’t think of at the moment.


  5. arealjeffersonian says:

    Great to see the Roundtable back, and a very good first episode.

  6. albatross0612 says:

    On the issue of Drones or targeted drone killing in isolated areas such are Tribal Pakistan and Yemen, I think the strategy is one out of Kissingers play book to create so much violence and hostility it will force the “insurgencies” to the negotiating table. Such was Kissingers plan with the heavy Bombardment of Cambodia during Vietnam trying to draw the North Vietnamise to the negotiating table, today it is done with more low key precision with drones. The high civilian/ collateral damage only fueling the hostility in the particular region even a well coordinated insurgency cant outlast. The link is a talk on insurgency/counterinsurgency in Pakistan.

  7. Jon Gold says:

    9/11 was good for Israel on 9/11 and in 2008*

  8. firehorse says:

    The 28 pages won’t bring the millions of GWOT dead back to life. I don’t care what is in the 28 pages. It’s from the government and therefore a tissue of lies

    • firehorse,

      Welcome to BFP Forum.

      “It’s from the government and therefore a tissue of lies.”- This is the most important fact, and thank you for stating it so clearly and crisply.

    • I’m with firehorse on this… and Sibel when you use the word ‘blackmail’. That’s its primary use and explains why Graham would push for its release for all these years. Keeping the hand warm, ready to be played to keep geo strategic puppets tied to strings.

  9. Mgrdichian says:

    Interesting speculation in this podcast about something none of us have seen. Sibel, vis-a-vis her exposure to classified material while contracted by the FBI, is really the only one in a position to give speculative context to the 28 pages. I can appreciate criticism over the hype surrounding the release of the pages, but context only has real value with the pages in front of us. You’re all saying these pages are of “little practical significance.” Where have I heard that perspective before?

    I have an activist friend who once supported the release of the 28 pages but now thinks it’s a red herring. He was hoping it would lead to an investigation into PTech, but now sees it won’t. I don’t quite get how connects PTech to the 28 pages, save Saudi involvement in both, but I agree that PTech is probably more significant.

    So what ever happened with PTech? Indira Singh seemed to indicate PTech was at the heart of the crime, and if she’s correct, the “masterminds” had to be directly connected. Maybe you could speculate about PTech in your next podcast since speculation seems to be the rage.

    • Katie Stewart says:

      Yes please, can we talk a little about Ptech? And PROMIS (originally software developed for justice department to track cases, correct?). Are these just myths thrown in to muddy the water? Indira Singh seems to have vanished and someone she apparently used to work with (Insider Magazine) seems convinced she’s been murdered. More tinfoil hat madness or genuine cause for speculation/investigation?

      • Katie,

        The last time I saw her was … 2007? 2008? During that encounter she said she was getting ready to go underground, somewhere overseas. I haven’t heard from her since … 2009-2010 … around that time.

        On the other hand check out what happened to Yassin al Qadi-all charges were dropped. He lived in Albania, and then moved to Turkey … and last I heard back in London playing the filed with the rest of the deep state actors…

        • Katie Stewart says:

          argh, yes, al Qadi, ‘charity groups’, BMI, Dallah Group, Dick Cheney, so many threads to follow it sets my head spinning!
          I’ve just been hoping Indira Singh would release the book she was rumored to be working on, about her experiences/investigations into Ptech, etc. I do hope she’s well.

      • Completely agree with you Katie. P-Tech in many ways is at the very heart of the 9/11 operation. It touches on so many important actors and strands. Indira Singh herself referred to P-Tech as the piece of twine that as you pull it, turns to string and then to rope. As she investigated the company it revealed more and more of the deep-state.

        Yasin al-Qadi’s rehabilitation is a very important development. He has managed to get off every single terror list that he was placed on, and P-Tech still exists today under the name GoAgile Inc.

        I am not entirely convinced of the PROMIS connection with P-Tech.

        • Katie Stewart says:

          Thanks for that response, Porkins, you just re-inspired an angle for my own pet fiction project. 🙂
          I too am not convinced of any connection, I just find the similarities in the narratives intriguing, or maybe questionable, I don’t know. PROMIS and Iran/Contra, etc, and Ptech and 9/11. Back doors, data mining, etc.

    • Mgrdichian:
      I don’t really have such a problem with speculation in this case. We did say that we were in fact speculating as to what is in these 28 pages, since clearly none of us has seen what is it them. I would also argue that we were presenting our analysis and theories as to the 28 pages. This is not that out of the ordinary for people to do.

      “You’re all saying these pages are of “little practical significance.” Where have I heard that perspective before?” – I don’t believe that the 28 pages that CIA asset Bob Graham are pushing are going to answer very much that we don’t already know. This just seems to have the hallmarks of a limited hangout type of operation.

      Yes P-Tech is a more important angle to look at when it comes to researching 9/11. But I suppose we should only talk about subjects where we have every single answer and piece of evidence right in front of us.

  10. USA created and managed 911 ! Thank you Sibel E for your courage. Very few in the know actually SAY THIS. ‘911 inside job’ is known by every intelligence agency on the planet. It is the division line.
    But divide between ‘dual Israeli/US citizen’ 911 gatekeepers and ‘Israel’ is OXYM. They are one and same. There is no division between those guys ‘recording the event’ and their counterparts back home watching on live feed and protecting the narrative . Just as there is no division between Bandar and Bush. and by extension DOJ/Obama for protecting them all since.
    BUT Graham on the egg still has me laughing. That is FUNNY. A doddering old bald eagle but also very accurate in that the behaviour concerning the 28 pages can clearly be argued as ‘broken wing fluttering’ of a bird protecting the eggs….”look over FREE FALL..not explosives..notPTECH or VMO..over here..flutter-flutter….dragging attention thru to the Florida swamps where the ghost of ATTA still hoots in the red transam. There is no doubt if MSM are touting it is distraction. One of the cogs. Important to read if we ever get chance? yeah. I guess. Sure. and it is wonderful 911 investigative activists are pursuing the release-Thank you for your work BTW, but no way did those guys work their part without homeland protection. No way.
    And, considering the little puppet bastards(LPB)(I do worry for you sometimes;) WT is reporting “officials privately saying the administration is weighing under a cloak of secrecy whether to offer Riyadh GBU-28 bunker buster bombs Washington has so far only been willing to provide to Israel. The officials who spoke with The Washington Times did so on condition of anonymity only, and the Saudi Embassy declined to comment.”
    So structuring of Full Spectrum Dominance escalations using GWOT thru proxies is very important to understand in the time-line. ISIS ‘brothers’ reported in UKRAINE with NATO proxy right sector fighters also.
    It helps to hear these things said loud and clear. Very enjoyable discussion.

  11. “The CIA regularly disseminated intelligence reports based on uncorroborated statements from CIA detainees including fabricated or otherwise inaccurate information ” (p485.Ex.Summary.SSCommittee on Intell)
    I guess they can do anything with 28 redacted pages 🙂

    • remo, I curiously clicked your avatar and found this gem with a link to an article by John Yoo from ’05 in the LA Times:

      “Another tool would have our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist organization. It could have its own websites, recruitment centers, training camps and fundraising operations. It could launch fake terrorist operations and claim credit for real terrorist strikes, helping to sow confusion within Al Qaeda’s ranks, causing operatives to doubt others’ identities and to question the validity of communications.”

      Good find, solid gold. Not sure if I’m laughin’ or cryin’.

    Very solid start!! I know you want to maintain the passion and integrity, Sibel! So in basketball terminology–
    Push it!!
    28 pages of puff and a dead cat bounce coming when?
    Let me guess….words that will NOT appear: Internal Implosion Demolition, thermite, “Pull It”, expected MASS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE, No Fighters in sky, Duped, Opacity, Public Gullibility a Given, More Executive Power…just to name a few.
    I’m glad the Shia of the East Side of Saudi Arabia were mentioned. The clock is ticking for the effete inbreds.

  13. Mgrdichian says:

    Release the 28 pages!

    As everyone has said, the 28 pages had the most value early on when most of the “criminals” were more readily connected to 9/11 immediate aftermath. So much has changed in the lives of the players, entwined with cameleon-esque geopolitics, that using the 28 pages to find an actual criminal would seem impossible. But obviously these pages have some value and power, evidenced by the fact that all of you are trying to dissect the games that are being played with them between superpowers, their allies and their puppets.

    I’m surprised that Guillermo is surprised that Masse had a change in world view after reading them. A lot of congressmen and senators will have a similar reaction if they actually read them, which they might have to do. IMO a major shake-up in the apple cart of “diverse” world views in the U.S, House and Senate might be a very healthy thing for America, regardless of how contrived and manipulative some of the info might get. The 28 pages may indeed start a different national conversation on subjects of war and peace.

    The US/Saudi card is not the only card out there if “people/groups/nations” want to start blackmailing over 9/11. Potential blackmail is an active ingredient in crimes like this.

    The value of the 28 pages is not primarily in their content, because much of the important information is likely meaningless today, too difficult to trace, or sanitized out. It would never have gotten to the point where it is today if it wasn’t OK in the halls of government. As far as the (deep) govt. is concerned, these pages are clean enough and ready to go, with agenda(s) in tow. The only real value they have left is in the power of “Who controls the timing and circumstances of their release?” And I think the speculation bantered around reflects that these documents do have some power. I’m in the camp that still believes that if the citizenry can muster up enough cooperation and organization to gain some influence over their release, those pages still could have some real value, both in identifying people/entities through further investigation and in guiding the discussion. In order for any important “discovered” information to be acted upon, the research and further investigation will be endless, and the govt. will try to weezle out of any responsibility for follow-up for decades, with panels and blue ribbon committees that will lead nowhere. The 9/11 truth community has some noteworthy minds and credible sympathizers and supporters and they all should have that info ASAP and it should be discussed, analyzed and followed up as import demands and expertise allows. If we don’t have the capacity to extract what is useful out of information contained therein, and the fortitude to overcome the distracting perceptions that will definitely emerge, I don’t know how anyone thinks we have what it takes to bring about deep-rooted change, in this case by not knowing, nor wanting to know what’s in those pages. Let the chips fall where they may.

    Sibel is also correct that these pages will someday be released, if there is anyone left who cares by then. Every minute that goes by those pages become less and less valuable in making solid connections to people who committed the crimes, plural, of September 11, 2001, and IMO for that reason alone the clock should be stopped, now. Sitting back and waiting for the govt. to release them as much on their terms as possible adds to their already diminished value for us and amounts to conceding to the govt’s game. I can’t see a downside to pushing to release the pages now, especially if some good (BFP-like) people are seen as advocates and willing to research them after their release,……. but ASAP regardless of any current geopolitical framework, the facsimile of which will always be there in form or another.

    I think getting those pages released could serve as a significant middle ground on a lot of 9/11-related issues with a lot of people, if we so desired. They (govt) should release the pages. We (the people) should control the timing and circumstances as much as possible.

  14. manix37 says:

    First, let me say that nothing is free…I’d rather fund BFP than have any stuff on here for sale. Also, funding is it’s own checks and balances, if the content is good, the funding will come, and if it is not, it will drop off.
    Second, there are so many dimensions to all of this…yes there may not be any new “explosive” (pun intended!) info with the release of these 28 pages, BUT, releasing them almost definitely will change the dynamic of the relationship with SA and the US. And in my opinion anything that shifts these macro relationships is really good. For example, what if the saudis (I’m tired of capitalizing these folks!) respond to the release with some sort of back channel release of info that they were not the only ones?
    Third .. Sibel you’re right on, the redacted stuff is leverage against SA.
    Fourth…Yemen. Pearce has it down and thanks for your depth of knowledge. Also, it’s SA’s flexing it’s military muscle, “if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail”. Besides, their AF needed to be “blooded” and what better to drop some ordinance on the poorest nation on the planet? The US has been practicing drone warfare on the poorest least powerful country in the world. The US needs to get SA more in the game and not just passive bystanders as they will soon be attacking their own population.
    I love this stuff, 3 dimensional chess…thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

  15. Cathleen McGuire says:

    Thank you all for your reporting. You’re the best. Especially Sibel! Love your brain, girlfriend.
    There was recently an article written by Roger Stone about the 28 pages and the Saudis.
    The Saudi 9/11 Cover-Up –
    That clinched it for me that this is all a set-up. For those of you who don’t know Roger Stone, he is a behind-the-scene mis-information operative going back to Nixon and Reagan administrations. He was directly involved as agent provocateur in the chad portion of the Florida/Bush coup d’etat.
    In 2013, out of the blue, Stone gets a book published on the JFK assassination (conveniently in time for the 50th anniversary) in which he fingers Johnson as the primary suspect. Stone got a lot of publicity — infinitely more than any of the researchers who have been at this work for years. All serious researchers know that Johnson and the Mafia are just diversionary tactics to keep the spotlight off the masterminds: the CIA.
    This guy is bad news. If Roger Stone is saying it’s the Saudis, you know there’s an ulterior motives going on. He has a long history of doing sophisticated/nuanced dirty tricks. I don’t trust him one iota.
    On the other hand, there are those who think, come what may, we need to just keep pushing for the declassification of the 28 pages to keep the 9/11 conversation front and center. Part of me says true, but another big part of me knows how the Deep State works. I would not put it past them to have multiple agendas of who knows what, with us getting stuck with the end result of “the Saudis masterminded 9/11.” Case closed. The Saudis forever become the patsies.
    That’s similar to what happened with the HSCA congressional investigation of the Kennedy assassination in the 70s. We now know the committee was totally infiltrated and controlled by the CIA (e.g., Joannides). The committee basically blessed the results of the Warren Commission and put a definitive nail in the coffin in favor of the official story. While polls consistently show year after year that people don’t believe Oswald was the killer, the HSCA results make it hard to ever go back and officially re-examine the murder.
    As such, the last thing we want is for the government to oversee any kind of 9/11 re-review. A release of the 28 pages opens the Pandora’s box of dirty tricks they can do as owners of the narrative.
    We’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Keep it shut and we learn nothing. Open it and they control much of the conversation and the end results.

    • Cathleen:
      Sharp thinking. We need you to comment on “Probable Cause” –now 18 episodes in and many topics discussed. Please consider it.

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hi Cat,
      “.release of the 28 pages opens the Pandora’s box of dirty tricks they can do as owners of the narrative. – Yep. Today it’s those damn pages, another day another narrative purveyed by our ‘friendly’ scrip-tors.

  16. While reading my usual daily amount of “global financial crisis looms” articles, I came across a statement by Gerald Celente who thinks this SA bombing is signaling a criticality event. Why? He said SA has 4 Million Yemini workers in SA and they(SA) are bombing Yemen!? A death wish of the inbreds, perhaps.
    I did a little research and couldn’t come up with 4 Million Yeminis, since apparently SA sent many home before they started bombing. In fact, up until recently SA has about 9 Million foreign workers. It seems SA is paradoxically opaque, yet almost anyone can see/suspect what is happening right in front of one. Curious, no?
    Sibel: re; your approach, I think Machiavelli would give you an “A”
    A good Plundering Formula: One–direct smashing of an already smashed oil state(a second smashing). Two–Since US has Black Ops everywhere, trigger proxy wars via “False Flags”. Three–Use good old fashioned blackmail; in this case 28 pieces of paper.

  17. Whit out the World of West…!
    Snap..They would be It.
    Kind Regards

  18. Chapter of China-Pakistan cooperation…
    Gwadar is trouble waters…!
    kind regards

  19. lizzie says:

    I am hoping that in your next round table you might bring up Bob Graham’s buddy Porter Goss. Those 2 have been reported to have had quite a few adventures together over the years. It unnerves me when I here people in the alt-media act like he is some beacon of truth. If you comb thru Graham’s backround, he has an awful lot of coincidences to account for himself about his own role in 9/11. As for the Saudi’s, I agree. Those 28 pages are just insurance policy and threat all rolled into one for useful tools. The day those pages are released is the day the House of Saud is thrown under the proverbial bus.

    • Lizzie,

      Exactly- without it you never make it anywhere near ‘Intelligence Committee’ (House & the Senate). Period.

      • lizzie says:

        Guess who is the newest lobbyist for Turkey? Mr. Porter Goss. I just came across that being reported by The Intercept today. Also, along the lines of your thinking that the 28 pages are to force the Saudi’s doing some overt fighting for the Empire, how about what happened to one of the prince’s in Paris over the summer? An armed carjacking by a group of masked gunmen against a visiting diplomat, stealing embassy documents and over 250,000 euros-what the hell was that about?

  20. Ronald Orovitz says:

    A lot of fireworks in this thread, and some angles I was unaware of… I’ve a couple things to add: first, something is better than nothing, so by all means release them. If they are a limited hangout, they can be ID’d as such. But since these pages are a lacuna to most of us, we don’t know until we see them. The statements of those that have seen them are intriguing enough: “one or more foreign governments” says Walter Jones. Saudi Arabia we know about, but who is the “or more”? Israel? Turkey? UK? -it was after all the BAE Al Yamamah slush fund that was being utilized. And, Graham in his “factional” novel strongly implicates a private equity firm that bears some resemblance to the Carlyle Group. As for Graham’s deep state history, we must always allow for someone to become a “traitor to his own class” as the saying goes. JFK was such a person, who went from being the CIA’s favorite candidate in 1960 to becoming such an enemy that they had to take him out. I recently watched the Kennedy/Nixon debates and on the subject of Cuba and Latin America, Kennedy was all gung-ho about getting into their business, leading Nixon to give a cautionary rebuke against intervening in the internal affairs of sovereign nations… Then he says, we should do it like we did in Guatemala! -at that point I just cracked up.

    There is this caveat concerning Graham, however, the advice he got to write the “factional” novel (after expressing his frustrations about the limitations on his non-fiction book) came from none other than Joseph Nye – see the recent BFP article by James Petras on this character.

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hi Ronald,
      “..we must always allow for someone to become a “traitor to his own class” – Yes. Something is better than nothing. I want to believe in heroes, but presently can only identify heroic actions. The powerful allow themselves a rich helping, thank you. Anywho, a historiography on a character development of the likes of Graham, JFK or a Bandar are out of my reach. Just remembering a term of “false prophets,” reminds me how little I know, and how little I can read into the hearts of power-holders.

  21. Olivier says:

    The question I had here still lingers in my mind:

    (The question was: Since the Saudi’s have been long-time participants in American covert operations, and they would therefore presumably be street-wise, how come they let themselves be set up in this blackmailable corner?)

    I speculated: Maybe somebody promised them total dominion over Sunnis and Shias.

    Here’s another thought: Saudis were reluctant participants in 9/11 in the same sense that a mob neophyte is reluctant to shoot his first victim in the presence of ‘the family’.

    Or another one: There could be two power hierarchies intertwining in S-A. The first one with the Saud King of the moment at the apex. The second one, with more international covert loyalties, working for the (descendants of the Safari club). The second hierarchy did some of the lifting for the 9/11 project, the first hierarchy wasn’t necessarily aware. It’s the first, overt hierarchy, that gets blackmailed for actions that the second carried out.

    • Mike Land says:

      This is one of confusing aspects of the MO. If the whole point is to convince the public that an independent terrorist organization carried out the attacks then what accounts for so much info that contradicts this? We see a similar MO with JFK (lone nut), RFK (lone nut) and OKC (McVeigh and Nichols).

      In all of these covert ops we have seen enormous resources put towards the cover-up in large part because the cover story is so flimsy.

  22. I’d like to hear some discussion on the current problems in Macedonia (FYR). Is this more of the same? ie Pipeline politics destabilization or something else? The dynamics of Russia, Turkey, Albania and the US is interesting here.

  23. Another thing:

    was Seymour Hersh set up by being fed some bogus info about the ‘Bin Laden raid’ to ensure the official bogus ‘Bin Laden raid’ account was finally accepted and put to bed?

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